My experience with correct lie angles..

I’m new here, and have been reading some posts about lie angles etc… I have played a lot of tournament golf, played good some days, some downright awful… I fell into the trap of the new equipment hype a while back and my game went south… I bought a set of Miura Tourney Blades with my 5 iron set at 55 degree lie and then all my clubs made to my static address position with hardstepped x-100’s… I noticed a difference right off the bat… I engrained a steep swing playing with the "new’ upright junk that I played for years… I quickly became accustomed to the flat lie angle (standard for me) and didn’t once hit the ball left of the world like I used to do on the first day alone… Hitting a baby cut and my distance control was much improved… I did pull one shot left, but it didn’t hook, so instead of having to flop to a tight pin over a bunker(which I’ve become good at because I needed that shot) the bad swing ended up in the rough just off the green… I ended up -2 on a very tight track with hard fast greens… The problem is I was 3 over after 5 holes because the course had huge trees and about 20-25 yard wide fairways and was hitting driver… Quickly I decided to hit long irons off the tee and made several birdies coming in… Wouldn’t you know it, I take out the driver on 18 (530yd par 5) and pull hooked it left OB but was able to make par because I held on for dear life on my second drive to hit the fairway, and stuck a 6 iron to a foot for a tap in par… What I’m getting at here, is although some manufacturers say lie angle doesn’t matter in the Driver because there’s not much loft is a bunch of crap… If lie angle doesn’t matter on a driver, why build em 10-12 degrees upright? Same experience with fairway woods… I just don’t get it… I can’t use persimmon because some of the courses I compete on are long so I have to take advantage of my length… What I’m looking for is a driver and 3wood with a hotter face than persimmon that sits flat at address or maybe just slighty up, if that’s even needed (my static measurement is 49 degrees with the driver) so I can release properly instead of the old flipperoo… OH, a light bulb went off and got my wedges bent to my correct lie as well, low accurate wedge shots that I haven’t seen in years… If anybody can steer me in the right direction to get the right Driver-3wood combo, I would be much obliged… Cheers…

Get persimmon driver at 49 deg and just play the the events where the rough is penal, u will win by plenty and send shockwaves around the world


I understand what you mean, but with today’s golf balls, I don’t know how they would fly off the face… About 10 years ago, I did experiment with a persimmon driver and nutted it, but was using the Titleist Professional which I’m sure made a difference… My buddies chuckled during practice rounds when I brought the Persimmon out, but didn’t laugh when I was 30 yards ahead of them in the short grass… I don’t know which way to go really… I’m all for putting a persimmon 3wood in my bag with the right specs, (If somebody can make me one let’s talk business) but am just looking for something hotter than persimmon in the driver so I can hit a hard cut with it and get it out there… Seeing the ball go left triggers my gag reflex… haha…

Bit the bullet, 49 deg Driver, embark on Mods 1,2,and 3, and put that left sucker to bed.

Stop looking and start learning, ur baby cut is found here mate



I went from Henry Griffiths 2 deg upright irons to 7 deg flat blades. I went from a Fry pan 64 deg, Light and long driver, to a Persimmom, 49 deg, short and heavy. I now dont go left.


Well, you can either DIY or have someone do it for you. There is a link to the equipment section here about some guys who did adjust their own titanium drivers. Might be something to look at. You should still try a persimmon though. Nothing feels/sounds better. If for no other reason, just to have something to play on non-competitive rounds (and to make your friends green with envy).

Not to mention most persimmon drivers are already “flatter”. Usually about 55-56 degrees as compared to 60+ degrees on a modern driver.

I’m in the middle of doing my R7 like this. Funny thing is my favorite wood is a cheapo Northwestern 4-wood maple laminate that I hit the bajeebies out of 220-240 yds. Best $1.99 I ever spent on golf. :smiley:

I usually play persimmon driver/4wood as my combo but there are some courses you need the “modern” length on so I would like a modern driver set flatter. I am also going to replace the graphite shaft with an X300 steel shaft and set it at 44 inches. I’ll let you know how it goes once I get it done (if it doesn’t crack on me).

Yes, I heard that the loft don’t matter on driver since it is teed up but I have measured the paint mark of my tee against the face and it is 12 degrees off the face angle. I don’t usually hook it but I do hit good shots that seem to go left because of the driver even though I thought I hit it great. I just don’t trust the titanium driver because of that. Plus that damned toe is so high off the ground it looks awkward and visually harder to align.

Good luck and welcome to ABS. Amazing how easy it is to get used to “flat” aint it?


5 or so years back in Florida, I went and saw a guy who actually worked for the Senior Tour and traveled with them from stop to stop for club adjustments and repair… He told me Trevino had his wedges very flat compared to standard and most of his clubs were 5 degrees flat or something around there… I was brainwashed then and didn’t really understand much about it… I remembered picking up one of his gadgets, it was a Golfsmith length lie calculator… I stretched it out to my 5 iron length(37.50) and the lie came out to 55 and my crapola 5 iron was 61… I didn’t say anything just had a confused look, then stretched it out to my driver length… 43.5 and the lie came out to 49 . I should have said can you make me some blades and woods at these specs but was just getting a grip change and loft adjustment and was on my way… Last year I was given a few sets of Nike Blades , (you need standard length and lie 1 degree up, blah blah)… What a horrible set of clubs… My really bad shots would go so far left they’d hook around and hit me in the ass… :smiley: That’s when I started to do some research and thank God I was able to get some Miura blades, this is my length/lie/loft/shaft flex I need,(no questions asked) they turned out perfect… Do you know how frustrating it is to shoot 64-74 in a two day span, timing good on first day, army golf the next? The way my brain is wired, good solid ballstriking is was gives me confidence and that’s when my putter gets hot, not punching out from trees all damn day… Good god I’m ready to pack it up unless I can get some woods in my hands that work for me … I just might have to bite the bullet and get some persimmons like Steve said… Who knows, maybe I won’t lose much distance at all… Does anyone have any persimmons to sell that I can give a go with those specs? Let me know… Thanks so much, so glad I found this site…

Lagpressure (John Erickson) has persimmons that are flattened that he sells in the Lagbay section of the forums. you should check them out.

i bought some old taylor made metals from the 80’s that i’m going to flatten or try. i’d rather have the persimmon but bending metal
seems easier than the rebore of wood that lag does…

There should be new items coming up for sale on here soon I believe. You’ll lose some distance, but it’s worth it. If nothing else, practicing with persimmon makes a big difference.

So, if the big club companies say that lie angle doesn’t matter in a driver, why make them longer, lighter, and more upright? I understand the lighter part because people actually think they’re going to hit it further then go on hitting banana balls all day long and might catch one and it boosts their ego… With my POS driver even with an X-100, left to left and more left is my miss… I’m not into video analysis or anything but did put my swing on cam recently, doesn’t look bad, except my hands rise about a foot at impact with Driver and 3wood… My path is inside, square, to inside, but way too steep… I have NO confidence in my 3 wood off a tight lie whatsoever… Zero!! It’s sits way toe up as well… I’m very feel oriented, and can feel the flip in my hands and no rotation and the ball can go anywhere…I hit it better out of the rough, (Does that make sense?) With my irons now with the right specs, I can release fast through the ball, and the ball isn’t going left and the trajectory is something I haven’t seen in years… Well, there’s my rant for the evening… :astonished:

Here’s a photoshop I made of myself of how I’m feeling right now… :laughing:

If i was using upright, light and whippy clubs, i bend them over my knee as well

Fontaine, don’t feel bad. At least you have found out what your problem is (not flat enough lies) and you trust that having the irons set properly allow a good strike on the ball with the clubs you have now. How many people have the same issue but don’t know the problem is? Manufacturers only care about selling to the weekend hackers (there are plenty of them). They really don’t make equipment for really good players (not many of them). They design them to “help” an over the top, cutting motion to minimize the banana slice the hacker is about to hit. It’s not really to allow a good golfer with a proper swing to hit it correctly. It’s all about market penetration and saturation. Add in semi-annual technological “improvements” and you have the consumer treadmill in place.

If they sold you an actually well designed, properly fitting driver, you wouldn’t need to buy another one for years or even decades. Look at the blades and persimmons most of us play here. They are at least 30-50 years old and they work quite well when adjusted to the proper lie angles.

Someone had posted about Tom Wishon driver/woods that have a hosel that allows bending to ± 4 degrees which is much more than the 1-2 degrees of the “adjustable” new drivers. Don’t know if you checked out the link I put up previously for the titanium driver lie adjustment, but being able to bend the loft/lie of your clubs for yourself is also a great skill to have. For the price of a new modern driver, you can get a new loft/lie machine that will last you decades and allow you to tweak your irons or your friends anytime.

Keep at it. You are on the right track.

So, that ‘toe droop’ they talk about, has to be caused by a steep swing and hands coming in higher at impact I presume. It’s like your brain tells you, this club is too upright, so stand up and flip at it… My irons are giving me great feedback now, and didn’t realize how much I have to release with my body by getting down to the ball instead of straightening my legs and my misses are a strong cut rather than a high nasty hook. Hell, I hit a 4 iron into a par five, made a bad swing, hit so far behind it, felt awful, sounded awful, and the ball still got pin high right in the heart of the green for an eagle putt… I’m playing only with my 2-sw right now and scoring better because I’m always in play and can get the 2 iron out there pretty good… Words can’t express how grateful I am to Bradley, John, and you guys for your guidance… My best golf is still ahead… :smiley: