I agree with you absolutely, positively 100%. I don’t see how anyone can see it any differently.
I’ve always believed that Golf and Life went hand in hand. Sad, what corporations and their puppets are doing to both? (Ooops, … have I gone too far there?)
It looks like I’ve finally found a home here. There are others that can see… and care…
Only question is…Where are we? … Lag…are you actually Chief Bromden? Is Two Masters really Randle McMurphy? Where’s Sorenson, Cheswick and Harding?
Oh my God… Am I Billy Bibbit?
Quick Lag !.. Grab the sink!!! Grab the sink !!! G-r-a-b…t-h-e…s-i-n-k !!!
one flew east, one flew west, One flew over the cuckoo’s nest. - Children’s folk rhyme Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. - Aldous Huxley (1894-1963) British Author For here we are not afraid to follow truth, wherever it may lead…Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) Third President of the United States
They tried to make it mainstream. They tried to make it marketable. What are the odds that some big beer-gutted Monday Night Football enthusiast will really care about golf traditions? If they aren’t getting to watch 300lb monsters pound each other’s brains out on Sunday afternoons, they want to see big, strong golfers pounding golf balls 350 off the tee.
Golf in its proper form shouldn’t have much appeal to the masses. Golf needs to be more of a niche sport, rather than made for ESPN. The more I think about it, the more I am in agreement with you that golf needs to go back to being an “elitist” sport. The “elitist” and “arrogant” qualities of golf that many despise are the same ones that preserve the traditions. The argument that golf in an “elitist” form prevents the involvement of everyone except the upper class is a very shaky argument when you consider that historically there were more guys on tour who grew up poor than there are today.
If golf is supposed to be a “gentleman’s game”, then why are there so many muni’s full of slobs in jean shorts and tee shirts lugging around a six pack playing nine with their buddies?
Public golf can still have a decent code of ethics… just as a public courtroom, fine dining restaurant, night club… all with appropriate attire and all public establishments.
The long driving circuit should be it’s own venue for smashing the ball with technology driving the way. It’s fun and entertaining and I would enjoy that within it’s proper context. But trying to blend that with regular golf makes no sense, anymore than requiring the Long Drive guys to strike it with laser accuracy. I have always thought they should be allowed to hit the ball in a 180 degree sweep out into concentric half circles and see who can actually propel the ball the farthest from a given point with no concern for accuracy.
Jack Nicklaus made an interesting comment in his interview with Dick Rugge about the modern ball and the distance difference it caused between the persimmon and modern driver. (I’ll assume for the moment that he was using the same ball for both clubs in making his comparison and hadn’t checked out all types of balls with various compressions and so forth…)
As this thread is about the modern ball/vintage equipment…
Any opinions as to what distances a reasonably good swing (8-12 handicap) can achieve with any of the modern balls available out there today and, let’s say a 43" or 43.5" steel shafted persimmon driver? Carry and Total Distance? (Flat fairway, no substantial helping wind…)
Mainly curious as to whether or not the new balls just “hit a wall” somewhere, no matter how much better the swing gets…
I recently got this Tony Penna off eBay and used it this weekend on an unfamiliar course with very firm fast fairways. I used a ProV1x ball and while I’m not exactly sure about the distance, I estimate it was 250 -275, maybe more. Carry probably was 220-240.
A few months back lag and I were playing at Mare and we decided to test it. I had my R9 super deep x shaf in the bag along with my persimmon 2 wood.
We figured out that a well struck persimmon equated to pretty much the same distance using a callaway tour ball for both clubs. I think I ended up hitting about 3 shots for each club and the average was pretty much the same. Could be the ball combo, could be the clubs, could be i just made better swings with my persimmon.
Anyway, i was averaging about 270-280 off the tee that day.
The gigantic head sizes of the frying pans are not consistent with the look and design of the rest of the clubs. With a smaller head like the old persimmons… it is not going to allow for players to take such a violent rip at it without fear of completely missing the ball. But a total beginner can just swing out their shoes with no fear of missing the ball which simply takes the majority of the skill out of driving a golf ball with some sense of precision. The fact these things are allowed at the professional level is preposterous.
There should be special events for those using the frying pans… maybe for super seniors or beginners like Tee Ball is used in little league baseball… or training wheels on a bicycle… but everyone riding around on a golfing tricycle is just sillyness.
It looks like the mg c4 tour balls are hogan tour deep balls that have been rebranded. has anyone played the tour deep with persimmons and blades? Could they work for us?
I played the Wilson FG ball the other day out at Metro… and to me I didn’t notice a huge difference between it and say a ProV.
The cover might have been a bit softer. Not a bad modern ball, but nothing like a balata. The ball flies a long way that is for sure.
What we really need for TRGA is ball that doesn’t fly so far… so that it makes sense playing 6800 yard championship courses where 250 to 260 is the typical drive for the good players. I definitely hit a couple 300 yard drives with the FG… that should have been more like 280 tops. I think it goes at least 15 yards too far if not 20 coming off a persimmon.
We just need a softer lower compression ball that doesn’t come rocketing off the face.
We want the average length pro to hit about 250. Longer hitters 270, and the worlds longest pro hitting 300 max. But the clubhead speed to hit 300 should be posing a real problem with the smaller headed persimmon… as far a accuracy would be concerned.
If another Greg Norman comes along and can do both, then he is doing it with supreme technique, and nothing wrong with that.
Barkow reminded me the other day of the famous quote my former USGA president Sandy Tatum on the 1974 Massacre at Wingfoot
I play the wilson zip, including with my persimmon gear.
While it is nothing like a balata ball, among the modern plastic balls, it is at least softer feel and lower compression.
Shot shaping and spin control is so much different with a balata.
Tad Moore has had a special mesh pattern ball produced for his hickory events… maybe he can provide some leads on how he got that done, and what it might take to bring back a true balata.
from what I understand, those mesh balls go about 180 to 200 max with a driver. Perfect for 5200 yard hickory layouts.
There needs to be a ball for Medina playing at 6800.
Thanks for posting Drew…very interesting.
Even though not many would really care in today’s world I would love to see the same test done with a persimmon wood
The softer ball is better on wood…the harder is better on titanium… I think the results would alter greatly in carry and roll.
In other words…today’s ball would have been junk with ‘real’ wooden clubs just as today’s ball is not very reactive with ‘metal’ woods
No question about it. Balls are matched to clubs.That more elastic quality of the outer layer of a rubber based compound pairs much better with a non-metal insert on a persimmon wood. I’m sure the same was true in the hickory era.
Many of the great wood clubs of the past have nowhere near enough loft to launch the modern ball properly. The launch characteristics are so different than with balata. Most guys interested in returning to persimmon would be shocked by how different the flight is now off the driver, just because of the ball.
A nice brassie with 11* of loft is a much better fit with the modern ball… but you still get 10-15 yards more out of the ball, and it flies SO much straighter.
It is a real shame so few grasp the total disaster that equipment and the ball have become, and the terrible feed-forward loop that creates. USGA = FAIL!
I recently got this Tony Penna off eBay and used it this weekend on an unfamiliar course with very firm fast fairways. I used a ProV1x ball and while I’m not exactly sure about the distance, I estimate it was 250 -275, maybe more. Carry probably was 220-240.