I find it a bit off topic but,
how well your able to stay in the moment the present in the now.
That will decide your score and game.
Its never about the swing when playing the game.
Once you have the ball striking, its all about focus of attention.
Okie dokie… good luck with that especially since the guy with the most talent ALWAYS wins.
soon_tourpro wrote
Recognizing that both can be effective, my understanding is that Hogan had more of a merry-go-round action, rather than a ferris wheel. Any thought here?
Also, seems like I remember reading that Hogan and Austin were friends, did Hogan incorporate any Austin precepts?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLZOyv3KkxU[/youtube]
The Jury is out on if Hogan did see Austin.
Smiley states so in the above video.
I like Hogans swing before his accident. The one after is a pitching swing.
Hogan, snead and others even if good solid swings didn’t use the same pivot action Austin did.
I would state that the pivot used by austin is a better choice even for ABS fans.
For distance, for accuracy for consistency.
Its much harder to spin out, you wont find the discrepancy that will happen in a classical pivot.
You will add power while retain accuracy.
Just to make clear, I differentiate between classical pivot, modern and Austin. all different.
This is a +2 handicap pro, he used a modern swing earlier, got back issues, finally he shifted to an Austin version.
His back issues are gone, he now can play full time without issues.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf8DYp31P_k[/youtube]
I didn’t realize spinning out was such a problem when the first move down is fanning it and dropping the club straight down behind your back… Learn something new every day… Now I’m intrigued, pray tell more of the Stockholm take on the old pro at Wilshire and the “pitching move”…
Nice video story. Who was the guy from Scotland who hit the ball left to right? Wasn’t he a roofer, thus maybe had a powerful “hit” action?
Soon, can you explain the critical differences in your mind here?
LCD said
I agree…as has been discussed long ago, and more recently on the Hogan thread, the rapidly straightening right elbow( but not totally straight) of Hogan matched his fast hips, and prevented any OTT. And if it matches, then is spinning out even possible?
Thanks.
Hogan is dead, he had a pitching wedge swing after accident and had worse stats than before accident.
conclusion, new swing not as good. (people model the later swing dosnt make sense to me)
Yes if you match the speed with the pivot of course it works well if your timing is on.
When its off you will spin out and have eradicate shotmaking with a wider dispersion pattern.
He could match it (pivot) due to having a pitching wedge swing, who want that today?
Modern swing is the worst pivot you can do, due to lacking a proper lift with left foot and leaving the lower body to crash the back sooner or later. (couples)
(Blaming Leadbetter on that one) Leads to a loss of dynamic positions and athleticism. Faldo, michelle wie recent examples.
Classical pivot, Hips turn, Hogan pre-accident, Nicklaus, snead, bradley hughes before his swing change, with a short stop action of right foot to prevent back injuries.
Timing dependent less than modern swing. Better fundamentals. might include rolling arms.
a good choice. more a position swing that athletic.
Austin pivot a compound action. Hips tilt not turn.
spinning out is not likely to happen, more power and accuracy, timing becomes slightly easier.
signums are, longer short stop action with back foot after impact.
athletic swing more than position. no rolling over arms.
My personal criteria are, athletic swing, as I want to just play the game and dont want to think about what positions I make or not.
It made more sense to me to study the mechanics of Mike Austin due to distance and accuracy.
Understanding the difference in motions (pivots) has been a lot of practice in the dirt for me.
I applied this to a +2 index player, more a modern/classical swing player and he was able to make the shift in 3 weeks. he now is accurate beyond what he once believed was possible.
For me a classical or a Austin pivot make sense, due to any ball striker of the game used such.
I am 48 years old and have no back issues, hip, knee or neck issues and can swing all out without risking injury.
Video has made people to try to match the swing into positions instead of building feel.
spinning out widens the dispersion pattern.
(clarifying)
Cool to see Mike Austin being discussed. In my view, one of the best aspects of his thinking is the squarer pelvis coming into the impact area, but his throwing picture is a bit slingy at the end of the day- though the underhanded aspect of it is cool. I wouldn’t want to be relying on him to control a mid/short iron down the stretch with that action. The fact that he’s often marketed with long hitting in mind, is not surprising. I would disagree with the claim that it produces more accuaracy- definitely more raw power though. The squarer pre-impact pelvic state he recommends does produce more accuracy when coupled with a more ABS-like impact to post impact action.
I used the Mike Austin swing for a fairly long period of time. Trying to “throw” the clubhead from the top gave me the highest swing speed I’ve ever had. Interestingly when I tried to throw it from the top my lag was actually better than when I tried to retain the angle according to video. I have no idea why this is true - the difference between feel and real I guess. And I’ve found that the thought of throwing it from the top will help some people and not others. The compound pivot he talked about I found very difficult to execute - and so I hit a lot of hard monster hooks. I’m hoping that ABS will allow me to eliminate the left side of the golf course. His swing would be great for someone who wanted to participate in long drive and was athletic enough to carry it out.
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So I gotta ask.
Sounds like the Austin swing could be toned down from pure power to provide some power, length and accuracy.
Just as if you always tried to kill every shot using any number of swing protocols (methods) you would get the same results, some good/great/not so great shots.
I have to admit this Mike Austin guy piques my curiosity. It would be interesting to know how those who use the Austin swing actually do fair out on the golf course and not in the long drive arena.
JesseV
Can you tell us what you think the Austin swing is?
I’m not really as familiar with the details to make such a comment.
Might be a good starting point to understand what he was putting forward.
Actually, Mike Austin’s lesson were focused as much as accuracy as power. I took lessons from him for years and he was a great friend. He utilized the 12 joints - ankles, knees, hips, shoulders, elbows and wrists.
I disagree with the assertion that there was no hip turn. There was a shift and a turn. It was a compound action.
For those interested I have been posting clips of my lessons with Mike Austin on mentoredbythelegend.com
He was a brilliant guy and quite a character. He gave lessons well into his late 80’s/early 90’s most often at Studio City, California- even after suffering a stroke that resulted in a severe loss of locomotion in his right leg and arm.
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Hey Lag,
I didn’t see your question until today. I figured I’d answer as I’ve been studying the Mike Austin Swing over the past few months and am now committed to learning it.
What is the Mike Austin Swing? It is a swing that uses the muscles and levers present in the body to produce an efficient supple powerful swing. It is a coordiated action of the muscles and joints of the body in the swing. Mike wanted “supple quickness, not rigid slowness”, he wanted “mobility, not stability” in his swing.
Key characteristics are the take away, how the hands and arms function in the swing, how the backswing is performed, the compound pivot and how the release of the club is performed. Although there are other key points that I am leaving out of this description I think these will suffice to start with.
The compound pivot - some may watch the videos and determine the back swing to be a sway but its not. The back swing is a shifting of the weight over the right leg and the right hip turns to the 3:00 posistion. It appears to be a reverse pivot but as one is allowing the left knee to bend during the backswing and the left hip moves dwon while the right knee stratightens along with allowing the weight to shift over the right leg it is only an appearence of a reverse pivot. Actually if you watch Mike swing it is not a reverse pivot at all. During the down swing the left hip slides forward and the spine will swing left similar to how a bell moves, you are ringing the bell on back swing and down swing. Then you turn the right side through the swing. The swing of the club into impact is along the lines of an underhand throwing motion but I would not take my description as 100% correct.
Mike does advocate throwing the club from the top, it does appear in videos that he does not but from what I am finding I know that is what he is doing. It only appears that he is swinging conventionally and purposely holding the angles. I beleive the holding or more accurately the maintaining of the angles or the pressures on the club are actually good fundamentals that occur in most every good swing whether intentional or not. Nicklaus often said he is releasing from the top and not many of us would argue with his swing angles or impact alignments. So when viewing Mike’s swing you will see that he mantains his angles and/or pressure as do all great golfers. Was it his actual intention to hold these angles, and did he do it on purpose? I don’t think so. Again, I just beleive what you see in this portion of MIke’s swing is perfect fundamentals common to all good golf swings whether intentional or not. Again Mike wanted supple quickness and using the muscles in an intentional manner to hold any of the angles would affect swing speed and would go against what he beleived.
What is interesting is that Mike’s release and what one does in the swing is predicated on allowing the left hand to go into dorsel flexaition and the right hand into palmer flexation at impact. In most swings I have seen video of it does appear that he still has some bend to the right wrist and the left wrist is almost flat at impact. However you must to study what Mike’s impact alignment is. He actually wants the club shaft inline with the left arm and is not concerned with a flat left wrist orany bend in the right wrist. After impact there is no rolling of the forearms this is where he allows the palmer and dorsal felxations to occur. Sure the forarems have to roll eventually so that one can acheive a proper finish but the ball is long gone by the time any roll occurs.
Mike does advocate a slight inside take away and his getting the hands to the correct psotion in the take away is very much in line with a conventional swing. Mikes swing to and through impact is more of throwing the club out and away from the body. Mike’s actual impact is more along the lines of snapping a whip.
Now I am sure I am leaving much out or not describing it correctly but its is a easy swing, more powerful for me, and more accurate, I hit the ball straighter. In using the bodies levers more efficiently I am finding that my back does not hurt like it did when I employed a conventional swing. Just like any swing I do hit bad shots, but those are fewer and farther between then when I used a conventional swing.
What I think many of us can appreciate about Mike Austin is his 515 yard drive with a persimmon driver and balata ball. Sure he had a 30mph tail wind and the ball rolled over the green and downhill for another 65 yards, but think about it for a moment. If you factor out the 30mph tail wind, lets say 10 or 20 % thats only 30 to 60 yards the wind helped the drive. So he hit could hit a balata ball with a persiommon driver in the 330-370 yard range with regularity? Simply amazing to me. And he did this when he was 64 years old!
I’d like to hit one legit 300 yard drive in my lifetime, and I’d have to use a modern ball and modern driver to do that. Amazing.
Just so everyone knows, I am a fan of lags and twomasters. I have not taken any personal instruction from them and have only studied and read what they teach at ABS on the public side and twomasters site. I hold Lag and twomasters in the highest regard and feel that what they teach and advocate can help any and all who are willing to listen and put in the time. As with any instructor and what they teach, it is up to you the student to do the work, As the old saying goes - You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. Whether its Lag , twomasters, Mike Austin or any other instructor, they can lead you you but they can’t make you. Any and all success you have in this game will require hard work and dedication and thats all you.
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Bump. I feel like there’s more to learn here than what’s been covered. Was he a hitter? Switter? Swinger? Was he good through the bag? He claimed distance and accuracy. If true, why would we not give him the Hogan treatment (thorough analysis)? I would like to see some DLT and complete caddie view swing sequences. I would provide them but not skilled in this area yet.
M3S
M3S,
What do you think? JesseV’s description certainly reads swinger doesn’t it? And that is what I see watching Mr. Austin swing.
No offense to JessieV but describing a swing can is more difficult to convey properly to some. I was looking for better swing sequences (DTLs/Caddies) so that I, along with others, could make some of our own assessments as to what was happening in the swing. I also know many here have at some point pondered the net effects of distance with a hitters vs swingers protocol. I know Lag has prescribed a swingers protocol for anyone aspiring to be a long ball hitter but I simply find it interesting that someone can hit a golf ball that distance and also claim accuracy. If true, I would like to know if he beat 1000’s of balls per day, humped the goat, got stuck, stalled his pivot, etc., all those things I want to avoid but at the same time would love to be long and accurate. Not so I could bomb and gouge, but as another dynamic to my game. If this is all about timing, end of discussion for me as I would not choose to go back down that path. I just thought maybe something was different here and could be openly and honestly explored.
M3S
We humans can be more accurate than we give ourselves credit for. His swing looks powerful, if you try some of what he did it will undoubtedly add power to your game.
Accuracy comes from repetition and trust in the swing and what you’re feeling.
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Model for Austin action.
Compared vs the original Model Mike Austin modeling the motion.
(Not me swinging) Motion a match (no student of Mike Austin can do that).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a8t6h9I5cI
and newer a bit more tweaked accurate action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Lq2RWM5hRU
I see a lot of similarities between Mike Austin’s backswing and that of Sam Snead (and a lot of old school players)
Both pull the right knee back to allow a free turn to the right…turn into the right side.
(They dont fully straighten or lock the knee)
This is a most natural way to turn - just stand up and turn to your right and check what your right knee does.
Trying to twist the hips or shoulders is not a natural move.
As you don’t hit the ball on the backswing I think the intent is to get to a good top position in the easiest and most repeatable manner.
PS: I Like the skeleton suit … Wonder if he shopped in the same store as John Entwhistle…