If we are going to fire our hands actively down at the bottom of the swing, then we need to load some angles so that we have a range of motion for our hands to travel through.
I certainly agree with Maves that we need to release these angles so that we can use the loft of the club void of any excessive forward shaft lean for standard shots.
If the transition is very quick or violent at the top, then the hands would have some opposing resistance working against them… but this also creates an over acceleration blackhole situation for a hitter.
Some downstroke loading or what TGM would call a float loading, is very desirable for several reasons… such as flattening plane and increasing our range of motion through passive wristcock created by a centripetal movement of the shaft inward or towards us. Whatever angles are created must be released, and I certainly prefer a proactive method of doing so with active hands. The stronger, quicker and more masterful the hands are, the later they can unleash their power into the impact arena and beyond.
Hogan was correct when describing the downswing as being initiated by “the lower part of the body” Both Hogan and Snead were very clear about firing the right hand (and both hands) at the bottom of the swing… not from the top
I think there is a difference between allowing the creation of angles and holding angles.
Mike Austin did a lot of “mental imagery” so his throw IMO was done even before the motion was initiated.
A throw can be done without activating hands if the object is heavy enough you have enough to do to create mass and momentum to move it without activating hands to do so.
Its easy to take an instruction and do it in a way that wasn’t intended.
If one initiate a throw then the lower body must move first, and the rest will follow in sequence as the last bit is throwing the object away.
That is easy with a stone or a ball.
Having a club in our hands a lot of things can go wrong.
Modern instruction is one.
Modern equipment another.
Good friends…is another.
I follow and use Austin principles.
Many find the swing hard to learn due to focusing on specific things they work on without first making a way to organize this which leads to swing thoughts and focus on what the body does or how it “should” look on video.
I swing to target with a fade or draw with proper tempo, that is my organization that I then include the throw, hip, arms and the rest into.
Mental imagery includes what people call somatic or limbs in motion which we call swing.
Wow here’s a name I haven’t heard for a long time… very cool. Couple questions, did you work with Mike? Also what happens when your tempo sucks? I’m not particularly coordinated and or graceful to begin with, what does someone like me do when I warm up every third day and haven’t got any tempo or timing and the whole thing feels like a monkey effing a football?
Also can you define “modern instruction”? I can’t see very much that Lynn Blake, David Leadbetter & Stack&Tilt have in common other than I don’t really care for any of them.
Would love to learn more about Mike Austin’s methodology and how he communicated his concepts and ideas to students.
Coming out of the golden age of heavy gear and great ball strikers… do you know how he had his gear set up?
Tempo can never suck, you either have a to fast or to slow, and shifting between a few will show you where your tempo should be at your current level of game.
My driver is 40%, my longer irons 50% and mid short is 60%.
To slow and you come out of sequence, to fast same thing, test a few variations of tempo and you will find yours, some music might help, waltz is popular.
Modern instruction negates dynamic or athletic motion.
Restrict hip with left foot in ground in the backswing, both feet parallel, and a lack of slide with right foot into the down swing (short stop)
That goes for Leadbetter, stack and tilt, etc…
Hi, sry didn’t train with mike, not that old and I am living in sweden
His last swing was back in 1988 before his stroke and he used old stuff then. The modern era more or less started after his stroke.
He used heavier than normal if I am informed right.
Mike was IMO a direct and no hold bar cussing across his concepts.
He what I can conclude wanted tempo to be optimal for the individual combined with footwork (slide) and a hip motion that was more compound in motion (Pivot) with active hands into the impact area. (not rolling over elbows though)
Throwing IMO is the image he wanted to have when he did his thing, which organize the motion to be a step and throw.
Mike changed his ideas along the way also, which IMO have caused a lot of confusion due to different understandings and Mike did things depending on who he taught.
My study has been this site mainly www.hitlonger.com
That and 5 months of work this winter with the swing. I am able to hit good shots with speed after this time.
Fixing 25 years of abuse and flaws and compensations have taken time.
Some of my best golf was played after I watched good golfers, either Sam Snead on the range at Augusta, Geiberger on Sybervision, or a specific local guy with great tempo.
Another curious observation…not an extremely “long knocker,” but my longest career drives were after watching a Mike Austin instruction DVD. Surely course conditions and wind were a factor, but they were my longest nonetheless.
I don’t get it. My tempo can suck and quite frequently does. And I’m not that bad, I mean a once parred four holes in a row in September 1998… If they’d have given me that 3 footer it would have been five but anyway I don’t understand what those percentages mean, can you elaborate? But I always thought a good move was something that could still work on the bad days which happen more often than the good days unfortunately.
(Why do I think this is going to be a conceptual debate on opposing forces?)
And can I substitute Jay Z for the waltz to keep some street cred?
Jay z works.
Tempo is a internal reference of a motion when the body moves trough space at specific intervals.
to sync a motion proper tempo is needed, some might not be good judging that but if a normal shot is 100, do 50 or 60 until one is found that suits the shot you make and criteria are, ballimpact and ballflight. I think step dance is a good way to increase a sense of tempo or playing drums.
Ok that’s cool. But do you really think that’s the most reliable thing day in and day out? Even from the first hole to the last? When you’re tired or hung over or sick or jet lagged?
The thing is if you do want to be a professional is that it’s a job and every day is not ice cream Sunday. Far from it. One day you’ll wake up in a hotel room thinking, ‘why is it so hot in here?’, and after a couple of minutes you’ll remember its because you’re not in South Africa anymore, you’re in Malaysia… during monsoon season… The last 48 hours kinda sorta settles into the consciousness not that it really matters where you are anyway as long as you make your tee time and have your pants on right side out. Everything else is just scenery. And then you do get out to the course and something really depressing hits you right over the head, that almost every guy down the line has the same level of desire, concentration and determination as you have. Every one of them can focus on tempo the exact same way you can. And a bunch of them have way more game. So the question young man is… What then separates you? And what exactly is it that’s going to turn the bad day, the 75 into 71 & move you up 25 spots?
Are we talking about a relationship between backswing and downswing speeds?
How would the tempo be defined between a player with a super slow backswing then just rips at it? compared to an quick - quick style with similar impact thrust?
IMO Mike Austin had a different move than most from the top, a reverse move if you like. he releases under simular to what Moe tried to show us. Watch his hands 0:25 its all in the motion, its all connected his hands controlled his pivot, just twist / untwist, its that simple if the pivot is correct. no chance of ott.
youtube.com/watch?v=gfmt698_uPw
Austin saying about dunnaway who was a 380y driver in the day.
Thats how he would define tempo.
Tempo is sequence of movements, what your speed is doing this movement in reaction to each action is individually referenced (feel), so I wouldn’t say much about a slow or fast backswing as it is about sequence of body motions that fire of which has to be about the individuals own sense of Equilibrioception motion trough space.
What you see on video and what you feel is different.
I personally would say be focused on the target not on what the body does while swinging.
If the golfer has proper tempo for their shot, they will hit it perfectly.
However their tempo is uniquely their own due to reaction and response to their own movement trough space.
Austin was a trickshot artist also, if someone called a fade or a draw on top of his swing, he could do it.
its said, if he did hit a to much fade, he would work a draw for a bit, if he hit a to much draw he would spend time hitting a fade.
simple.
His release with hands allowed a extra speed increase which could add a few yards, he also when really going for it had a big lateral movement in the backswing which can be confusing since he normally wouldn’t do that. at 0:13 he states a little more weight transfer than necessarily. His own uniquely thing. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yDwImZnpIU[/youtube]
I was attracted to this thread because Austin reminded me of what i have been working on with my pivot / arms / hands, Its interesting how he uses his right arm and advocates extensor action. there is magic in the right arm, for me it feels like its all right arm, the extensor action is a big key. his pivot is the same in my opinion of what tomasello used to teach. i for 1 need to research austin much much more. This guy is very interesting.
is there any videos of him performing trick shots?
I haven’t seen the tapes he did, are a few tapes out there and might be on some of them. one where jacob spent time with Mike and what he learned. swingmangolf.com/learn-the-m … -swing.asp Jacob was a 14 handicapper who after instruction went to shoot under par and hit 400y drives.
Austin was IMO heavy on the proper pivot (compound) since that allowed a ferris-wheel action and you had a hard time spinning out and were able to really go after the ball.
I found what he did and the other websites I use as a source good for me when I re-tooled my swing this winter.
I find what he taught and what this website ABS match since its about accuracy and distance.
I’m curious how you’d answer this having played the game for a living. Popular thinking would say “grinding” and relying on your short game and putting.
I’d add in that having a fallback “stock” shot that is more reliable and pressure resistant (while perhaps less versatile) would be of utmost importance on a bad day. Related to that would be understanding your “shot cone” or the angular dispersion that your golf swing may produce under poor conditions. Also working very hard before going on tour to eliminate the 2-way miss (related to shot cone).
Finally, there’s probably something to be said for the mental ability to forget about any bad shot within about 15 seconds after it’s hit. That’s something I see from guys like Phil who can hang in there and score even without his best stuff. He’s disappointed when he sprays one off the tee but by the time he gets to the ball and prepares a recovery shot he seems to be completely focused on the task at hand.
Having a good caddy to keep you in the moment would also be an advantage on off days.
Of course, I’ve never played for a living so this is all conjecture. Interesting question though.
