Michael Vick and a golf discovery?

Public Forum—Concepts in Advanced Ball Striking
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For years I have always said that I have never seen anyone with a better ARM as a QB than Vick. I was watching some nfl channel the other day and saw some of his practice throws and again was just amazed at his velocity for such seemingly little effort. So I decided to jump on youtube and compare to other QB’s (many greats) on why Vick just seems to have a cannon of an arm. While watching, I started to envision an upright golf swing like he was hitting a golf ball that would be suspended above his head.

Vick has the most forearm “lag” I think of any QB I looked at. His pivot is more subdued as would be expected by seeing the football whiz through the air but he has high flexability of his left should/arm socket to lag that with his pivot, then also lags his forearm almost horizontal on his “downswing”.

“top of backswing”:

P3 (look at that 4:30 line…)

Now going from the 1st pic to the second pic is where I noticed in videos my epiphany. I also then saw the same thing with Hogan (but much lessor extent obviously): {play :27 - :30 repeatedly}
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miAfPxYFAtw

Martin Kaymer {:10 - :14}
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlXgMtdFzqU&feature=related

LAG {little bit :7 - :10}
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sjNqBnAkpE

Etc.

It is the subtle LEADING of the dominate side elbow! Like a throwing motion of a pitcher for first few early split seconds of downswing into slot, to which then the forearm whips around. Lag, you will appreciate this, because it also has the effect of flattening the swing!

The more pronounced the whipping, the more speed (and probably less accuracy so the key is to find your balance of controlling this). Here is Sadlowski {:15 - :17}
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBZGiSAiEbM

What do poor hack amateurs do? They lead with the hands from the top in a rush to hit. The elbow stays behind. Go to any local range and this is what you will see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y4pkOsrcCs&feature=related . No elbow “lag” at all.

I was at range yesterday with my new discovery and was striping the ball. Driver was, from estimate at familiar range spot, 20-30y further and my 9i was now over 130y. Scratch, here I come! The hard part is getting this new awkward feeling down and engrained. My earlier swings I have on my PC have this elbow lag a tiny bit and not all the time though. Now I have to work on getting it a bit more to where better players have it.

Ohh, almost forgot… Yes, Tiger has it too {:32 - :38}
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp1BvVQbUTQ&feature=related

Or I am just a goofball thinking I know…

2

Budman,

Nice post. Last night before doing my bag reps, I hit 4 or 5 balls just to loosen up. Was hitting it like ***t and felt like I had a severe case of severe right laterals going on. Had to find and answer and looked back to my mod 1 key points (still only on mod 2). The key was maintaining my shoulders on the 4:30 line as far into the downswing as I could. Reading your post today got me to thinking how elbow lag is related to the 4:30 line. I just stood up, pretended to have a club in my hands and made imaginary slow swings. If the shoulders remain at the 4:30 line (delayed in their opening) on the downswing, the elbow tucks very naturally and the lag of the elbow is created. I was going to make a post of my own but your post flowed very nicely with my observations. Once I got myself back to Lag’s teachings, I just started striping it. I was only hitting into a net but the ball started to explode.

Next, I did my bag work with a my concentration being on the 4:30 line and after the bag work hit my 4 to 5 balls again. Killed it.

As an aside, it is amazing a how I can just go to the basement and make a full swing with no back pain or stiffness after 4 months of impact bag work. I hit 4 or 5 balls as my warmup before I start my bag work. After my bag work, I hit another 4 or 5 balls just to feel the progress I am making on my golf swing. The after bag work swings always have better feelings and better contact.

Bob

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One has to be careful not to groove positions…they are just that…static positions within a dynamic. If the dynamics and intentions are matched the positions are the effect and not the cause.

Can’t we use someone other that Vick :unamused:

In rat’s world his sentence would have been to be enclosed within a 50 foot inescapable ring with two very, very nervous bull terriers! Well, maybe even three of them…but that wouldn’t be fair…one is enough :imp: RR

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Actually I find Budman’s comparisons truly electrifying for golf instruction. His observations should drown out the run-of-the-mill tips that are so typical in the industry. I’d hang my hat on those foundations and use them to bludgeon the competition…enjoying the stranglehold I have on my opponents coming into the final holes of our match.

While Michael Vick capitalizes on whatever second chance comes his way because he has “done his time” (which is our system of justice) and while I believe in redemption…I firmly believe there is a monumental disconnect in character and soul as demonstrated by his clearly premeditated actions. I have no time for someone like Michael Vick.

Captain Chaos

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Quick Edit: In my original post Martin Kaymer should have read from {:7 - :10}

Trust me, I wish it wasn’t him either. I was a huge fan of his until the stuff came out and made my stomach sick to see him. He has done his time and I hope he truly is sorry now, but he still wrenches me a bit to look at him. But there is just way worse out there for me to carry hate for someone who has actually taken the time for rehabilitation. They found a burned female body in my city a few weeks ago and turns out one of the perps was a 19 year old.

But anyway, the whole reason for my enlightening ‘discovery’ (I hate to use that term since it only applies to me as a discovery and I am just sharing it incase others aren’t privy. MANY great players and tour pros already know this move) is because of noticing over the years Vick’s effortless looking rockets compared to other QB’s and the other night decided to watch some slo-mo of him and some reason thought of an upright golf swing at same time.

If you spend some time looking at great golfers at youtube you WILL see this move on pretty much all of them. That is pretty solid. Some of them are more subtle and you have to know what you are looking for to see it as they may be more accuracy bound (Like Lag, Pavin), some of them are so pronounced I am surprised I haven’t read about this somewhere already. Hogans is pretty evident as is Tigers. Even more so in the players like Dustin Johnson and Bubba who have decided to forgo some accuracy for the addicting long-ball.

Here is one of my favorite examples {:13 - :17s}
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMawJWLnlLM&feature=related

If you enlarge to full screen and watch over&over you can see the motion. I can only best describe it as elbow leading the forearm type “sling”. Put your dominate side arm straight out to side with with elbow bent 90°. Now without moving where your hand is in space move your elbow toward an imaginary golf ball on ground as if you were throwing a baseball. That is the feel. And additionally (you see Garcia and hogan do this) as your elbow goes, at same time move the back of your hand closer to your forearm (hard to describe but watch Garcia). The angle of your right hand and forearm should DECREASE a bit during this subtle elbow move.

Watch Vick sunday afternoon when they play the Packers to see what I am talking about with his velocity. Here is what I am talking about: :laughing: :laughing:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYgEC-sekgI[/youtube]

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I don’t think vick has a copyright on this move. My guess is most/many QB’s in the NFL have a similar “elbow leading motion” just as most pitchers do. (Isn’t there a BOM thread out there on this very topic?)

I vote we look for any other QB with a similar/identical motion (should be ez), change the title of the thread and the pics … too much bad karma with the vickster for any dog-lover out there.

Sorry bm,

robbo

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.30-.35 seconds

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCugqNjPemU[/youtube]