I got a set of MP-33´s today in the mail - by a poor guy who seemed to have a hard time finding the sweetspot according to the impact marks .
Lag - you talked about getting rid of Offset, since they seem to have quite a bit esp. on the higher irons? How do you do that - can a guy with a bending machine do this? I also want to make them heavy - they have TrueTemper S300 shafts installed - so switching to heavier shafts probably wont give me more weight - so my best bet would be to put more weight into the shaft? Does the clubmaker need to pull the shafts for that to insert weights?
Other than that i will just go with your specs you posted on the first page.
Removing the offset is really an art… it takes multiple bends on different places on the neck to do it… and it would simply be too hard to describe. I usually spend about 15 minutes on each club… sometimes more tweaking them, and setting them down for a look, then back in the vice over and over until I get it right.
but in the end it’s worth it…
The 50’s stuff is much easier to do… the irons with the longer necks, because there is so much more room to crank around on.
I wish I had a better answer…
Modern club makers, if you ever read this… quit making over-sized lightweight perimeter weighted off set junk that’s way too upright with wide flanges! Stop it!
Ever since I have started bending my own clubs flat I have noticed that when I bend them improperly, I sometimes get offset. I am not sure why, but I think I have to be extremely careful when doing the bend not to add offset when going 5-6 degrees flat. If I do accidentally add offset then it requires multiple bends and re-bends to get it out. I completely understand what Lag is saying about describing it, I get the feeling sometimes it can appear to be an art. If you were watching me, I would bend it multiple ways take it out, look, bend again, look, bend again, etc. My equilizer in one of my sets almost looks like a gooseneck now. That was my first try.
I think an experienced club guy would know what he is doing.
I have bent MP-33 before, they are pretty durable. Meaning you can bend them a bunch with no problem. Older clubs are often much better, but MP-33’s are not bad.
I dont bend my iron but recently bent a set of MacGregor M75 and the 9 iron seems to have a lot of offset. I suspect it might be related to where on the hosel (distance from the club head) you put the bending bar. can someone test that and post it here so I can give my club guy clearer instructions.
Basically the offset has to do with bending lofts mostly.
To remove offset, bend the club very weak up high on the neck, then when you bend it back strong from there, do that bend with the tool right in the bottom of the neck. The rest is all tweeking and tinkering.
Hey Lag…what’s the chance of you posting a picture of one of your own personal irons in which you removed the most amount of offset:
What would the head/shaft relationship look like as you are looking down the club from the address position.
Me and another rat fink are going into the secret lab soon with bars- hammers- and propane in hand for some serious experimenting-and it would be nice for a visual reference to begin with. Beyond bending the hosel, we are maybe thinking of somehow putting a torsional twist into the hosel in some way…don’t know if that can be done…but we are damn sure going to try.
We’re thinking that offset is just a visual equivalent term for the amount of face progression…so if we can open that face up as wide as possible- or as far from centerline axis as we can- that might take care of the post-impact slice variable and therefore reduce the hitting equation to intending to impart hook spin via the pivot…opposing spins. RR
Lag
Do aim to keep the length of your sets exactly the same. If not how much variation is acceptable and 2. how do you fit your exact length. Captain can not answer to the length part.
Here is an update as to where I have my irons now. This is my set of MacGregor M85 with stock but altered TrueTemper #1 Shafts in the tipping pattern.
A few minor adjustments here and there throughout. It’s certainly in my top 3 sets right now. I spent a fair bit of time tweaking them to remove all the offset… so they look great now.
The reason you don’t want offset if you are swinging a club properly is that you want to be rewarded for your efforts in regard to forearm rotation.
If the club has offset, there is a strong tendency to come OTT, or over rotate which tends to steepen swing plane into impact, and all sorts of other bad vices.
Bad golf clubs coming off shop shelves are designed for bad players with bad swings. Upright OTT moves use the offset to lessen the effects of a poor golf swing… but what happens is that this kind of stock gear assures the player they will continue to swing that way… because it simply encourages it, if not demands it.
That is an excellent video… exactly correct and it’s nice to see a club repair person like Chris who knows what he is talking about.
The other option would be for equipment companies to just make clubs correctly in the first place, so golfers would have a chance to learn to swing correctly… rather buy another box of band aids.
On your spec sheet you have your PW at 48* and then a 4* pregression. Based on the older lofts I assume you strengthen the lofts yourself. Do you worry about removing the effective bounce on the sole by doing this, or even creating a negative bounce situation?
My 1962 Haig contour soles came stock with stiff Propel shafts and no offset. I just bent them flat and that was it.
Most Hogan stuff has a little bit of offset, and even most Dynas need a bit of tweaking. The MacGregor M85’s seem to set nice.
To be honest, it’s hard to really know, because most of the older sets have been molested to some degree over time by someone. Most any serious golfer would have their set in a vice at some point… so unless we get one out of the wrapper from the attic of a 60 year old caddy room… it’s hard to say. I like the center of the shaft coming right down into the third groove, certainly with the longer irons… and a bit more face progression into the shorter irons, because the loft of the club will put contact a bit higher up on the face with a wedge than a 1 iron.
This is the kind of thing good ball strikers should be thinking about. The MIT scientists who are designing modern gear are still thinking about how to get the ball higher, and longer even with irons… so they end up completely missing the boat.
As much as I loath the modern balls, I still move the ball left to right or right to left, but not at the proficiency I would prefer with a balata. So in a sense, this stuff “gear” becomes even more critical than ever.
Do you pay any mind to what strengthening the lofts does to the bounce? I have played a few sets where if I strengthened the lofts I’d end up with negative bounce.
The whole offset thing is interesting. I bought some Hogan Apex (circa 2003) with the great Apex 5 shafts in them off ebay but I was very disappointed to see so much offset in the lower irons. Not sure I can even use them.
Last week I decided to try and find a fairly current set of Hogan Apex with modern shafts to “game” in 2011. I got a decent deal on a set of 2006 Apex with Project 6.0’s in em. Beautiful set/heads, but STILL with just a smidge more offset to them as compared to my 84 PC’s.
Is it just me or does it seem like ALL the older stuff has less offset?!
offset is good for hackers to keep them hacking… but not for good players who are interested in utilizing proper clubface rotation.
I was at Sam Randolph’s house yesterday, and looking at some Hogan set’s he had, and some of the newer sets had a ton of offset. But of course, Ben is not around anymore to remove it… Callaway I don’t think gives a rat’s ass.
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RR
