Hey Lag…what’s the chance of you posting a picture of one of your own personal irons in which you removed the most amount of offset:
What would the head/shaft relationship look like as you are looking down the club from the address position.
Me and another rat fink are going into the secret lab soon with bars- hammers- and propane in hand for some serious experimenting-and it would be nice for a visual reference to begin with. Beyond bending the hosel, we are maybe thinking of somehow putting a torsional twist into the hosel in some way…don’t know if that can be done…but we are damn sure going to try.
We’re thinking that offset is just a visual equivalent term for the amount of face progression…so if we can open that face up as wide as possible- or as far from centerline axis as we can- that might take care of the post-impact slice variable and therefore reduce the hitting equation to intending to impart hook spin via the pivot…opposing spins. RR
Lag
Do aim to keep the length of your sets exactly the same. If not how much variation is acceptable and 2. how do you fit your exact length. Captain can not answer to the length part.
Here is an update as to where I have my irons now. This is my set of MacGregor M85 with stock but altered TrueTemper #1 Shafts in the tipping pattern.
A few minor adjustments here and there throughout. It’s certainly in my top 3 sets right now. I spent a fair bit of time tweaking them to remove all the offset… so they look great now.
The reason you don’t want offset if you are swinging a club properly is that you want to be rewarded for your efforts in regard to forearm rotation.
If the club has offset, there is a strong tendency to come OTT, or over rotate which tends to steepen swing plane into impact, and all sorts of other bad vices.
Bad golf clubs coming off shop shelves are designed for bad players with bad swings. Upright OTT moves use the offset to lessen the effects of a poor golf swing… but what happens is that this kind of stock gear assures the player they will continue to swing that way… because it simply encourages it, if not demands it.
That is an excellent video… exactly correct and it’s nice to see a club repair person like Chris who knows what he is talking about.
The other option would be for equipment companies to just make clubs correctly in the first place, so golfers would have a chance to learn to swing correctly… rather buy another box of band aids.
On your spec sheet you have your PW at 48* and then a 4* pregression. Based on the older lofts I assume you strengthen the lofts yourself. Do you worry about removing the effective bounce on the sole by doing this, or even creating a negative bounce situation?
My 1962 Haig contour soles came stock with stiff Propel shafts and no offset. I just bent them flat and that was it.
Most Hogan stuff has a little bit of offset, and even most Dynas need a bit of tweaking. The MacGregor M85’s seem to set nice.
To be honest, it’s hard to really know, because most of the older sets have been molested to some degree over time by someone. Most any serious golfer would have their set in a vice at some point… so unless we get one out of the wrapper from the attic of a 60 year old caddy room… it’s hard to say. I like the center of the shaft coming right down into the third groove, certainly with the longer irons… and a bit more face progression into the shorter irons, because the loft of the club will put contact a bit higher up on the face with a wedge than a 1 iron.
This is the kind of thing good ball strikers should be thinking about. The MIT scientists who are designing modern gear are still thinking about how to get the ball higher, and longer even with irons… so they end up completely missing the boat.
As much as I loath the modern balls, I still move the ball left to right or right to left, but not at the proficiency I would prefer with a balata. So in a sense, this stuff “gear” becomes even more critical than ever.
Do you pay any mind to what strengthening the lofts does to the bounce? I have played a few sets where if I strengthened the lofts I’d end up with negative bounce.
The whole offset thing is interesting. I bought some Hogan Apex (circa 2003) with the great Apex 5 shafts in them off ebay but I was very disappointed to see so much offset in the lower irons. Not sure I can even use them.
Last week I decided to try and find a fairly current set of Hogan Apex with modern shafts to “game” in 2011. I got a decent deal on a set of 2006 Apex with Project 6.0’s in em. Beautiful set/heads, but STILL with just a smidge more offset to them as compared to my 84 PC’s.
Is it just me or does it seem like ALL the older stuff has less offset?!
offset is good for hackers to keep them hacking… but not for good players who are interested in utilizing proper clubface rotation.
I was at Sam Randolph’s house yesterday, and looking at some Hogan set’s he had, and some of the newer sets had a ton of offset. But of course, Ben is not around anymore to remove it… Callaway I don’t think gives a rat’s ass.
I agree about the bounce… but since I am more of a picker, it’s not a big concern. If I am playing in wet conditions, I might pick a set of Dynapowers for the day’s game over a set of MT split soles… but then again I might enjoy the challenge of that also.
I bend my irons a bit strong, not to hit them farther, but to keep the ball down a bit with a shorter shaft. The width of the flange and bounce are always considerations, but less and less as you become a better ball striker. Ideally I would like a set with a very thin flange and a hint of bounce.
Isn’t a 38" 5 iron a modern “standard” length? I know Titleist and Callaway use a 38" 5 iron as “standard.” TaylorMade goes shorter in their Tour Preferred MB irons at 37.75" for the 5 iron.
It’s not until you get into the “Super Game Improvement” or “Game Improvement” lines that the lengths will sometimes go up by 1/4" or so.
Going off your spec sheet you are then playing your irons set to the same specs as most modern sets, especially “players” sets.
Am I looking at this correctly? It seems the swing weight and perhaps dead weight are the only differences between your irons and a set from today.
RR
