Golf Channel "On the Range"

Public Forum—Concepts in Advanced Ball Striking
41

I haven’t ever seen an assertion by John that Tiger wouldn’t win in every single era of golf history. In fact, he has posts on this site saying the exact opposite, so I have no clue where you’re getting that there. Unless you can point me to a post stating the opposite, I think you owe everyone an apology on that claim.

I was one of the half a million in attendance at the WM Phoenix Open last week, and I think it is fair to say that golf isn’t the game it once was, when taken in the sense that it isn’t the same game that was played 25 or 50 or 100 years ago. The game has changed, for worse or for better. Golf during the persimmon and steel era wasn’t the same game as golf in the hickory era. The statement that golf isn’t the game it once was isn’t necessarily a statement of whether or not the current game is better. That is for each golfer to decide for themselves. I know my decision, but that doesn’t necessarily mean I have a problem with yours. It would also be fair to say that in the iteration of golf I prefer (along with most ABS students), ballstriking skill was of a higher premium. Likewise, if someone was to prefer the modern version of golf, they could say that putting is of more importance in the modern game.

I don’t think the fact that golf has changed drastically due to technological advances is disputable, therefore I don’t understand how anyone’s personal position on which version is preferable could be “laughable” when backed by solid reasoning and logic. If someone was to say "I think golf today is superior to the persimmon era because it requires a higher degree of strength and athleticism to be competitive due to the greater emphasis on driving distance in today’s game”, that is a defendable position that I may not agree with, but I can’t dismiss it as “laughable”. You may disagree with us but you have NO logical ground to dismiss John’s arguments as laughable.

I would agree with you that the principal objective of advanced BALLSTRIKING is in fact to improve one’s BALLSTRIKING as a means of improving one’s overall golf ability. So although the program is in fact more about ball striking and hitting pure shots, it also has an effect on scoring.

42

•The number of total golfers in the U.S. (age 6 and older) has continued its decline since 2005 – from 30 million to 26 million.
•Adult female and male golfers have both declined.
•Junior girls (ages 6-17) are holding steady and continue to be the “sweet spot” in the market.
•The steady decline over the last five years of the number of junior boys playing golf is something to think about.

1945 Babe Zaharias plays against the men in the PGA sponsored L.A. Open, making two of the first three cuts.

1973 Mickey Wright sets a record of total victories by capturing her 82nd win on the LPGA tour, the Colgate-Dinah Shore Championship.

Career Wins on the PGA Tour
Sam Snead - 82
Jack Nicklaus - 73

11 Wins in a Row
• Byron Nelson, 1945

72 - Dow Finsterwald

•First in streak: Carling Golf Classic, September 22-25, 1955
•Last in streak: Houston Invitational, February 21-24, 1958
•Streak ended: Missed the cut at 1958 Baton Rouge Open Invitational

Yep Bubba watson are hero

Yep

43

6packkid are you under some illusion that I am a big fan of bubba Watson?

If yes, why?

Why do you keep making references to him on every thread? Did he do something to you??

44

By the way you forgot to mention Michelle Wie and Annika Sorenstam playing on the PGA tour and Tigers win streak…

45

Jsrich, there are constant snipes at todays pros and assertions that they couldn’t compete with the pros of the 70s. As Tiger is a current pro the generalization includes him.

I have said many times that I don’t have a problem with you preferring person, what I do have an issue with is the righteous indignation towards modern gear and the ‘frying pan’ terminology.

I also think it’s hypocritical as most of the people on here actually own and game modern equipment as well as older clubs.

I still own a couple of older sets of clubs myself but I don’t go round telling people their new equipment is rubbish and my ebay set much better!

Enjoy your game, enjoy the stars of yesteryear but don’t say unkind things about Todays players like 6packkid is doing about Bubba Watson.

46

Styles,

I want to enjoy golf today… I would love to watch The Masters or any PGA Tour event and be in awe of the players and I would love to have a deep reverence for the USGA and R and A for doing a fine job protecting the traditions and historical values of the game.

However, I can’t. I wish I could, but I can’t.

Maybe I know too much… or saw too much great golf played during my touring years to own the ignorance that most golfers so blissfully enjoy. Maybe I strike the ball too good myself as a non practicing once a week player at best.

Whatever the reason, I find modern golf boring, lacking drama, articulation, craftiness, and the ball striking about as good as the golf swings are.

I don’t just sit around complaining about it. Actually quite the opposite. We have a lot of exciting things in the works I’m sure you are not aware of. Sometimes it takes a few disgruntled people to see change through. It worked quite well at The Boston Tea Party. :sunglasses:

I actually just picked up a set of early Hickories. Holding them and just examining them, I am pretty sure they are not going to play much different than the steel shafted clubs. The hickories come in all kinds of differing flexes and weights.
They can be weighted up and bent into something that would be quite similar to the steel shafted sets I play now. I think I will be able to put a lot of the rumors and speculation to rest here soon. I have heard it takes a completely different swing to play hickory. Maybe? but I am going to say no. As a hitter who holds shaft flex, I won’t be required to time the straightening of the shaft like swingers do. Getting a perfectly matched set will not be of great importance to me. I just need to get them in the general ballpark. The soles or flanges are very thin and knife like. But I am not a digger, so that should be fine. The TGM guys I think would really be in trouble playing hickories.

They are quite beautiful and extraordinary in their own right.

My initial thought is that the are generally very light. The shafts are generally loose… but some of them are much firmer that others. As a hitter you are going to hit the ball straighter with very firm or X shafts. The best physics for hitting a golf ball is to have much more mass in the head, but I guess in the hickory age, this created a problem because proper mass in the head made the shafts too whippy. The steel shafts allowed players to put more weight into the heads for better accuracy control and feel. I don’t however see any reason why a player couldn’t just bomb the hell out of a hickory driver if there was enough weight in the head and you had a firm enough wooden shaft. I would guess that Jones and Hagen had really heavy custom heads with very firm hand selected hickory shafts. I would also guess that they had no problem driving the early modern wound ball 250 to 280 with a proper strike. This would mean that the game really didn’t change all that much in the distance category. I think the improvements came in accuracy with the steel shafts due to more consistent control over flex patterns within the set and allowed for more weight to be put into the heads.

The golf courses where then designed to accommodate the length of the tee shots from that era, and many of those courses held up for even the highest levels of competition from the early 1900’s into the early 1990’s.

I just don’t see the logic of throwing away the historical relevance of the game of golf… built over nearly a century with such a vast collective human effort. Disrespectful, unappreciative and in my opinion, very very foolish.

But humans can be very foolish can’t they?

47

John,

Hickorys are not all light. A couple of years ago I had the opportunity to hit an iron once used by Abe Mitchell. It was given to a golf pro by a relative of Abe. I was told of the care Abe took in building his clubs. It was about a 5 iron loft, and had a long hostel and significant mass in the heel. The hickory was thick. It was not light and the hickory felt immovable because of its thickness. I hit it as far as my 5 iron with a nice high tight flight pattern. I loved that club. If I had a set of those I am confident I could play quite well with them.

48

Anyone ever hit a real featherie. I would love to try a hickory and featherie just to see what the ball does and what the strike feels and sounds like.

49

19th century bats were generally heavier and considerably thicker in the handle and had more of a gradual taper from the handle to the barrel about" 3 feet long, round, tapered and was to be between an inch and a half at the handle to three inches at the barrel. In 1857, the dimensions agreed upon were described as round, not to be more than two and one-half inches around in its thickest part and was to be no longer than 42 inches.

1920’s Ty Cobb Louisville Slugger Baseball Bat

The National League made two major changes for 1885. It was now legal to have 18 inches of the handle wrapped in twine and one side of the bat was allowed to be flat. The American Association adopted this rule when they followed the same rules as the National League in 1887. In 1893, the bat was no longer allowed to be flat on one side but was required to be round. The length was still limited to 42 inches and the thickness of the thickest part was still two and on-half inches.[size=150] The thickness of the bat was increased to two and three-quarters inches in 1895 and remains the same today[/size].

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Why did golf equipment change so much compared to baseball? Why didnt they make ballparks 800 ft why smaller?

50

The Giants played in the Polo Grounds from 1891 through 1957, and when the horseshoe-shaped stadium opened, it had a distance of 500 feet from home plate to centerfield. Eventually, that distance was reduced to 483 feet, which was the longest distance of any Major League Baseball stadium

Augusta National

Fast facts Original Architects Bobby Jones and Alistair MacKenzie Yardage History 7,445 yards (2010) 7,435 yards (2009) 7,445 yards (2006-2008) 7,290 yards (2003-2005) 7,270 yards (2002) 6,985 yards (1999-2001) 6,925 yards (1994-1998) 6,905 yards (1981-1993) 7,040 yards (1978-1980) 7,030 yards (1976-1977) 7,020 yards (1974-1975) 6,980 yards (1957-1973) 6,965 yards (1956) 6,950 yards (1952-1955) 6,900 yards (1948-1951) 6,800 yards (1938-1947) 6,700 yards (1934-1937,

Bsketball
Although Dr. Naismith had in mind the dimensions he wanted to use, the basketball court has gone through several changes. His first court was in a gym that measured 50 feet by 35 feet. Today, a regulation college and professional court is 94 feet by 50 feet

Some observations heavier bats were used to hit home runs 500 ft over the yrs technique got worse bats lighter parks smaller and a little injection in the butt and home runs came back. In golf smaller courses heavier equipment good technique now lighter,longer equipment longer courses less records and 13 yr olds hitting 320yds by yr 2080 Augusta now 8450 and average drive 511 making Mike Austins book obsolete but baseball parks come in to 200 ft.