Golf Channel "On the Range"

Happen to catch and watch a little on this show, and they were talking about Hunter Mahan along with his coach Sean Foley on the range.

First of all, the Hosts on this show are completely lost in my opinion. They were saying Hunter has a bent right elbow and needs to learn to straighten it on impact, or have both arms fully extended. They mentioned that Hunter struggles with his long irons because he comes into the downswing so shallow, which also hurts him getting out of the rough. They also say having a bent right arm, you cant compress the ball, and only way to do it is to fully extend both arms. They just keep going and going with none sense…

While they were commenting on Foley and Mahan, they were showing footage of Hunter on the range struggling to hit the ball, he couldnt compress it and Foley was there helping him.

They even had a side by side comparison of Byron Nelson and Mahan at impact, pointing out the right bent elbows. They quoted how “No one swings like the old days”.

They just dont know guys, they just dont know…

This makes me appreciate us 1% here at ABS in the golfing community. Cherish it!

-Brandon Peck-

Wayne Player was saying a bent right arm at impact is a good thing. The other guy who spoke with Foley on the phone this morning was saying that they (Mahan and Foley) were working on straightening the right arm at impact.

The sad part is that it looked like Mahan was trying to straighten his right arm. The whole segment was weird.

I was just watching that myself and having same thoughts, ready to go vent on ABS!

It seems that today’s modern Swing has completely been taking over by scientists, 3d model research papers, Trackman and all ‘proven’ even more when super cordinated PGA pros start implementing it and getting results. I felt like I was watching the anti-abs show. Complete opposite of what Lag/two advocate.

In fact, I was at another site the other day (name irrelevant) and one of the free videos was basically saying ALL the same type of anti-abs stuff. Shallow no good, alpha beta force that, “some detractors call that a hip stall”, etc. I was like :open_mouth:

I spent a good part of last year trying to get rid of my over-the-top move and shallow more at transition, only to now see popular internet teacher promote otherwise and tour players catching on to same “science”. Tiger with Foley, now foley getting Mahan working on same move, Rory has been seen doing the drill as well. Noren had a good classic swing and now is working on it as well…

This is where PGA is headed and a lot of big name teachers say it is RIGHT now and are seeing the positive results on Trackman:

Makes one wonder if in fact old classic swings were inefficient but some made work, as with all things…

Hitting vs swinging opinions and issues. Both ways can work… but right arm straightening and pivot stalling means lots more time on the range and timing issues… If they want to do that, good for them. Been there done that. Not going back to that stuff in a million years.

If Hunter really is working straightening the right arm to have it extended at impact that really is a shame. Ive always thought he had one of the best swings on tour with the shallow entry, bent right arm in close to his body, and the club swinging left postimapact with little clubface roll. I would like to know why Foley thinks straightening the right arm through impact will lead to more consistent ballstriking, because i dont see how it could?

Why do u guys speak in such absolutes?

At least John admits both ways work but he prefers his methodology.

Hunter is the guy on tour earning millions and millions. I dont think he’ll change because of some keyboard warriors.

Your venting should be about the GC presenters who largely haven’t a clue.

Most recently Peter Kostis “analysed” a slow motion shot by Kyle Stanley on the 16th on Sunday stating that the ball went left because Kyle flipped it, all the while we watched in glorious slow motion high definition how Stanley held the club head in a perfect angled hinge with no flip or roll whatsoever.

It is these presenters and their “facts” and opinions you need to get angry at, not the players.

When it’s all said and done… no one is going to care about how many millions of dollars a player earned. It’s not a statistic of champions. My old college teammate Kevin Sutherland has won 15 million dollars but zero stroke play wins in 20 years of trying. I wouldn’t hesitate for a second to play him for the pink slips on our cars tomorrow at high noon. I pick the course. :sunglasses:

The big money creates complacency. Most people with obscene hoards of dollars just have it sitting in some mutual fund and then they die and someone else gets it. Big houses are usually cold and lonely. Iron gates and stone walls disassociate you from the vast majority of people. Friendships often become strained and uncomfortable when such large inequalities exist. It’s not all it’s cracked up to be. Money, it’s what you do with it… not what you don’t do with it. Great to have a few bucks, no doubt, but beyond basic stuff, it gets a bit boring after a while.

Maybe I’m in the minority, but I would take Moe Norman’s record and accomplishments, Billy Dunk’s or Billy Casper’s over a tour player who never won and pocketed 20 million.

Awesome post !


When you have 120 guys teeing it up every week, there will be 119 guys who don’t win. Im sure Kevin is not losing any sleep with regards his record and his bank balance more than makes up for the fact you once won on the Canadian tour 30 years ago.

There are very few people who could name who won the northern trust winners over the last thirty years. Month never won a major but plenty of people know him.

Makes one wonder if in fact old classic swings were inefficient but some made work, as with all things…

Like Lag says both swings work if you have 10 hrs a day the modern swing can be timed unfortunately i dont. If you want to straighten your right arm thru impact please do throw as much as you want the choice is yours i did that for 35yrs.Hogan.Knudson,Nicklaus,Trevino didnt have Trackman nor scientists telling them how to swing last i looked Nicklaus still holds the the majors records. ABS does not comment on other teachers or methods and probably will never this program is Advanced Ballstriking which requires hard work and dedication if one thinks there gonna skate thru it like 6th grade math there in for a rude awakening!!
Today we have over 5000 training aids for golf only 20 for baseball, today we have over 100,0000 certified golf teachers, 3d and 4d cameras, vests, simulators, mental coaches,training coaches,putting coaches.short game coaches. courses 7900 yds, $50,000 a yr tuition for 13yr olds for golf. scientists and every bit of information to make you play better… bad news the average golfers handicap has not gone down in 60 yrs last i looked Nicklaus still holds the records
Now for fun who won last yrs Honda classic … dont cheat and look dont worry 99% of the people could careless or remember and we love golf.

Whatever, at least he has a win… And yeah Kevin might not be losing sleep, and he’s definitely made alot more money than anyone on this web site… but so what. I play golf to win… who cares about the check.

I think that’s what has been lost on tour… so many millionares that have no drive to get better or “do it right” in their swing or game… too much analysis, stats, and bad info…

And the straight right arm at impact works with upright lie angles… it can work, as John says, but you need to be a ball beater and then get hot one week. That’s what we have on tour right now… I bunch of guys trying to have the best week of their life, beating their brains out on the range, trying to get hot just once… Luckily for them, the technology is helping them stay there. If they didn’t hit it a mile, or the tour made the courses tighter, they wouldn’t be there…

Point being, we don’t have players dominating like they used to every week. … Yes there are many more good players then yesteryear… but they don’t sniff hitting it as good as the old boys. You don’t have ANYONE hitting it as well as Hogan, Nelson, or Snead … Not even Tiger in his day.


Great post Zack. I agree 100%.

What do you consider success? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Is it how much money you make? How many accomplishments you made? Reaching a higher level of skill or knowledge from the year before? Winning an event or Major? Bettering yourself in overall health and as a person.

In my opinion, money can only go so far. After you have enough of it or get to a point to where you are comfortable, it no longer becomes a motive because the money will always be there (assuming you manage your finances well). What i think becomes more important is winning titles, getting your name down in history, being recognize for your successes and efforts. Not just making the cut and getting by knowing you will receive some amount of money regardless of where you place.

Players go thru swing changes for a reason. They are wanting to get better, period. Same reason why some of us are here at ABS. We want to get better and we want to do it right with no BS.

Unfortunately, there are many ways to swing the golf club. Some methods are easier than others and everyone has their opinions of what method is better.

I will say, i will not take lessons from anyone who hasnt prove themselves on the course. Many PGA teachers have not won any events or even played at a high level of golf. They have this “idea” of what the correct way to swing, yet when it comes down to under pressure, many of them probably cant finish.

I am a firm believer of someone who actually tested their methods and find what works and what doesnt, than someone who sits around reading research papers and theories of the golf swing and “thinking” what is correct.

The great players of the past got good from trial and error and hardwork. They did not have the luxury of all this technological stuff, theories, data, research etc… as we do now today.

Winning titles proves a great golf swing, not how much money you make.

Honestly guys have a look at what you post!

You talk about beating balls as if the guys that do it should be pitied then retire to your basements to hit an impact bag several hundred times lol

on the one hand you say “who wants to hit balls ten hours a day” then add a signature saying “blisters and bloodied hands are the hallmarks of great ball strikers”

Seriously guys, I know a lot of you don’t like me coming on here and disrupting the flat earth deal u lot got going on but you gotta realise that boasts such as “i pick the track” are the same as the blind guy who challenged The King to a match - at midnight.

JE is a much better golfer than I could ever hope to be, his methodology has many merits but please, hitting an impact bag a bunch of times and flattening your clubs cos that’s what the hawk did, does not qualify you to decide how every golfer should play.

Okay I see a few things wrong here. I see you are roughly quoting my signature, although I believe I say “bloody, blistered hands are a rite of passage”, which I stand by. Nobody, including Lag, gets good at this game without slaving away on a driving range at some point in their development. I personally enjoy that part of the challenge of golf, and like spending long hours under the Arizona sun on the driving range mastering what I learn here.

There is an obvious difference between working hard on the range to develop a repeatable move and being reliant on range time to make a mediocre swing function okay every week. I certainly don’t look down upon guys like Vijay who (in my opinion) do exactly that. He has an awesome work ethic and probably really enjoys range time. If someone wants to do that, I have a lot of respect for that, as I think anyone would.

That doesn’t mean that his move is the most efficient, or the most dependable, or the one I want to develop. I firmly believe that what John teaches here is the best way to have total mastery over all aspects of striking a golf ball. It isn’t for everyone, and I am glad that it isn’t more mainstream and widely accepted. I feel I have a competitive advantage because I am working on this method and others aren’t. I don’t make any assertions that I am “qualified to decide how every golfer should play”, and in fact I don’t think that ABS is really a viable option for 90% of the golfing population. Based on what I have seen and the conversations I’ve had with other members at my club, I don’t think many amatuers really want to put in the time it takes to master the art of ballstriking, and just want a quick fix. ABS is NOT for people like that, and I think they make up a huge majority of the golfing population. They’re better off working on grip, stance, posture, alignment, and their takeaway with some PGA pro that can hardly break 80.

The purpose of the impact bag is to build and train muscle memory with correct form. Nothing more…

Whats the point to beat 1000 balls a day, if you slicing or hooking the crap of it ball after ball. Sure you might learn to compensate your swing for the ball flight you have, but in my opinion you are only ingraining bad habits and bad habits are hard to break. You eventually become a “Hacking pro”. Everyone knows OTT swing produces uncontrolled shots or very inconsistent shots. Why continue to hit balls like that at the range?

I practice muscle memory at home and ball striking at the range. Both is needed in my opinion or you are just wasting time and efforts.

I will agree though that a few people can figure out a good swing not coming OTT by ball beating. But there are faster ways to achieve that swing other than ball beating 1000 balls a day.

I myself love to beat balls as much as i can and i do. But if im slicing or feel like im coming OTT. I stop and go back to my impact bag and module training to set me back on track.


         No one on this site claims another teachers methods is right or wrong if you happen to use Trackman we wish you well  never claim its a bad idea. If you happen to swing upright or use modern day drivers and upright equipment once again no skin off my back but................. when one comes in my own house and vents against everything we do as in post #3 shame on you but once again its a public forum so call  me names throw stones etc etc.

Its really simple the people complaining are the ones not hitting the golf ball very well there are many who found ABS a easier method than others thats all and i’m sure visa versa.
If you feel the modern day player is superior once again its your opinion its a public forum. But as i stated before golfers are not improving as a whole that has to tell you something is the teaching bad, equipment bad, are we too technical, are the courses too short, is technology light yrs away, i dont claim to have the answer but whats been going on isnt working… i think somewhat of 2 million people quit golf every yr i think one of the reasons isn’t because there breakin par everytime.The 3 reasons i heard are time, boring and not getting better!!!
Its very common for people to visit site after site looking for answers on the golf swing using different usernames only to try different swings yr after yr and i have no problem with that but bashing no no.
For me personally i’ve tried other methods TGM, Morad and other methods and have no problem with those who still do.Never will you see me go to another site and claim ABS is a superior method compared to there’s never.

Who are the greatest players?
We’ll we can’t pull Jones, Sarazen, Hogan, Nelson from their graves and put modern gear into their hands and send them out on modern courses and see what they can do. We can’t give the living legends such as Nicklaus, Palmer and Player new 25 year old bodies and see what they would do either.


We can give today’s modern stars the same clubs and send them out onto the same golf courses the greats played. We can set the yardages up the same… we can grow the rough just as deep, and we can make the greens roll poorly as they had to deal with.
It wouldn’t be impossible to make a ball that doesn’t fly as hot as the new balls either. So Dustin Johnson becomes the new George Bayer (long and wild). Luke Donald becomes the new Billy Casper (short and straight) and it is COMPLETELY possible to see how they would fair against the greats of the past. Can the modern players shoot the scores of the past with gear and courses that are APPLES to APPLES?

I say no. Not even close.

Who today is going to shoot 63 at Oakmont on Sunday at the US Open like Johnny Miller did? Who is going to shoot 274 at Augusta as Hogan did with the course and gear set up the way he played it? Who?


It would be a real shocker to the modern players and the modern game in general to expose how poor the modern players are at the traditional game of golf.

Golf SHOULD be a game of tradition. It has all the qualities of what a traditional game should be. You have a deep history, you have very old courses that are still around. You have some amazing golf and accomplishments from the past, even 50 years ago that would be a great challenge for today’s players to attempt to recreate in an “apples to apples” challenge.

These are the challenges that pro golf should be about.

Could Rory have beat Hogan or Nicklaus’ record of 8 under in a REAL US Open in the persimmon age? Could he have done it with persimmon and rough over his ankles? Wouldn’t it be great to find out? Amazing if he could and did? I would sure be rooting for him. Wouldn’t the record mean a bit more if he did it on a real US Open set up with gear to match?

Well said John!

Many people still respect the greats of the past and some even try to mimic them. But without the proper gear they were using back then, and without the right intentions, its all show and no go…

15.4 Million Dollars. 1 matchplay win (PGA Tour)


1.7 Million 51 wins (PGA TOUR)


Can we really believe that it’s just about money?

I know which brain I’d like to pick… and who the better golfer is.