To be clear here so there’s not a misunderstanding, I don’t think GEARS is something positive or negative for students. Unless a player is just hyper interested in golf swing mechanics GEARS is just useful for rotating the focal plane 3 dimensionally so they can see what’s really happening. Or isolating a body part, the arm motion from the top of the backswing to impact without the pivot for example, so they can see only what the hands and arms do. The usefulness of GEARS is for the instructor. And not even necessarily having GEARS or getting a student on it. Moreso learning what actually happens in various swings, what similarities different looking swings have, commonalities between good players vs poor players, etc.
Now that gears movement 30 machine would be a huge benefit. But I’m sure you would have to sign a medical waiver. I can see many of us amateurs being broken in half by that and disabled for life . Hahaha
For me it is all about the amateur game. The pro game has no value to me. And learning this via online is next to impossible. We need feels or positions. Not a how to video and here you go. Why I give props to Brad and John with Advanced Ball Striking. They have developed a drill series that will do way more good than bad. It’s a perfect template for anyone learning this via the inter webs. Watching videos with no feels to go by is useless. As Am’s, we learn by repetitions and feeling what to do. That feel may be unique to us. But as long as the drills are helpful. You should be fine. No one is going to learn by a Here … do this scenarios. Or the pro saying “ this is what I feel”.
His transition looks great. But all hands and arms. And I slow motioned his post impact. Maybe he should’ve just had this screen shot and not showed the full swing. Life goes on. Just me being to analytical in the look versus results
A. People are dumb. And sometimes desperate.
B. A lot of people have a lot more money than you might think.
Well said 86 general. That sums up struggles of amateurs so well
Lock up thread.
Because people think they can just buy golf improvement.?
Huge issue in the golf world today. 30k for GEARS is just plain ridiculous imo
Didn’t think of it at first, but maybe those high prices are quotes for teachers who are paying for access to the system to give lessons. The price isn’t quite as ridiculous in that circumstance.
Yes, although not directly the way it sounds. I think everyone who plays golf avidly knows that you can’t really get better by buying an expensive driver or otherwise spending money. Everyone knows you need practice and skill.
But there definitely IS, I think, a phenomenon where we associate the price of things with quality. If you see two sets of earrings in a store, one costing $100 and the other costing $15, which one are you going to buy for your wife’s birthday?
Ok maybe that’s not the best example, and maybe it would depend on how long you were married But I do think we look at high prices and assume that part of the reason must be there is something valuable, rare, precious, or whatever associated with it. Maybe a recreational player looks at GEARS and thinks that finally it’s the key to them really figuring out the game.
I don’t know how much it is actually used in teaching.
I had a lesson with a pro at Baltusrol. He doesn’t have GEARS but has a motion capture system - I think he has 3D. He said he only uses it selectively, and in those cases it’s usually very high level players who he is trying to squeeze out more yardage or correct some quirk in the swing that he is having trouble diagnosing from ordinary means.
And good teachers know the limitations of these devices. I take lessons occasionally from a pretty well respected, tech-savvy teacher in California who has an extensive background in 3D and Jacobs…my lessons have never used any of this technology; he uses video primarily, supplemented by ball flight (real, visual, supplemented by Trackman/GC Quad, etc). I asked him about using my GEARS captures just as a tool for following the swing changes he is helping me with, etc. He actually said they wouldn’t be helpful. The biomechanical parameters he is trying to fix in me have to do with spine rotation and scapular movement, and he says the GEARS system - while extremely robust - has limitations in its ability to read both spine and scapular action.
Anyway…I think that’s alot of grinding GEARS!
Not sure about gears. But trackman doesn’t care about pivots or angles at all. Infact if you break it down … it cares about speed, face angle, path, and angle of attack
I signed up for a 2 month trackman package 5 years or so ago. And oddly it made me very arms dominant as getting my best results from their data. I knew that if I came down on a descending angle with a neutral path. I would get the best numbers. It really seemed to like the hitting down aspect. And with the driver I did the opposite and just hung back more on my right side and hit up on it. All the hard work I put into slotting and squatting was pretty much thrown to the way side. As speed and carry is a launch monitors goal. It took me a few months of drilling back to slotting correctly and squatting into the strike. I lost my whole motion in search of that illusive longer carry. And my first rounds on the course after were very poor. As all I could think about was speed.
Just hoping that maybe the newer tech like gears and such will focus more on form. Versus longer carry and speed gains
These were 9 irons. I loved the feedback. But hated the idea that speed and carry are the new goals in golf
And I think at the middle of my session package I was getting a smash factor of 1.50 average. Which was pretty good and got me on their leader board for the week. Made me feel really manly … and very American
Was thinking about buying a trackman. Still would like to get one. But I feel like all my fundamentals will be thrown out the window. As the main goal is speed and carry. It seems to really like throwing with all you have onto and down on the ball… and cares less how you do it. And maybe I’m wrong … but the speed aspect stops at impact. So
I can never see if I’m accelerating after the strike. This I’m not sure about… but it seems like it does a screen capture of your numbers at the moment of the hit. If I learned a swing on my own just using one of these devices. I’m sure I would develop into steep as a Jeep . Massive flip after the hit
Trackman doesn’t ‘like’ or ‘dislike’ anything. It has no feelings and doesn’t care if you’re slow, steep, fat, or an alien. It measures what happens - what you do with the numbers and how you act on them is based on your goals, motivations, etc…
It doesn’t know how to improve your swing any more than a tape measure knows how to make you grow taller.
If you go on a Trackman and get obsessed with maxing out carry numbers and feel your fundamentals deteriorate, then it’s probably better to not use it. Just my 2 cents.
That’s simply false. Trackman doesn’t “want” anything. Trackman is just measuring. It measures club delivery and it measures ball launch. Period. That’s it. What you do with that is up to you. If you make ungolflike or unathletic movements to shift numbers then that’s a failure in your part to properly diagnose an issue you have.
Speed and carry aren’t “goals”. It’s just reporting what your speed and carry were. It’s up to you whether or not you want more speed or think you need more carry. Trackman isn’t demanding it. You could have removed the speed and carry tiles from the screen and only looked at face angle or path or whatever you wanted to look at.
Related question: let’s assume you made what you believed was a perfect ABS swing. 4:30 slot, shaft flex held, accelerating hands, accelerating pivot, dead nuts perfect ABS mechanics. Your shots were mostly acceptable, but your numbers were a little outside ranges most would want. So you work on it on Trackman over a few months and your “mechanics deteriorate”, but your speed goes up, your carry goes up, your face and path become tighter, you hit start lines more often, and your shot patterns tighten significantly. Did you really deteriorate? Did your swing really get worse?
I mean, in his story, he said he played worse on the course… So I think that’s your answer.
If all of this happened and his scores showed statistically significant improvement, then it would be progress.
The scorecard is the ultimate judge IMO.
I was fascinated by trackman. And all this tech. But it seems (imho) speed is king. And when I had unlimited access I was looking at the numbers that the fitter liked. Path , shaft angle, speed, distance and smash factor. I could see my swing replay and I was getting steeper and steeper.
He was really excited I hit a 9 iron 170 with roll. Which I carried 160. I told him 12 yards of 9 iron roll might be a much t handle. He told me he can adjust my lie and loft and shaft flex … and even ball type to offset that.
The look of the swing and my fundamentals work was all thrown the way side. All he had to do is adjust my equipment and all would be good. I truly enjoyed every second of it. But taking this feeling developed to the course was a disaster. I was all over the place.
But again… I enjoyed experimenting with no interference with it. Personally I enjoy more control versus crazy distances once every 4 or 5 swings
I just think if I had my own with no interferences. Or pressure to buy a new set of clubs. Than yes … it would be a huge benefit
100%. Results on the course are what matter. But if you’re on Trackman doing whatever it is you’re trying to do and getting, for example, +9 path numbers consistently that’s probably something you want to be aware of. And then if you get out on the course and don’t ever hit pushes or hooks then that’s a good indication that what you’re doing on the range is different than what you take to the course.
Hitting a golf ball well is all about getting control of the internal pressures created in the body. Cohesive body tension spots and how to engage and maintain them. Positions are just marking posts of good internal dynamics… such as a full shoulder rotation with minimal arm travel.
We show and demonstrate where and when pressures and forces are applied within the body that ultimately moves the club.
We can do a majority of this without even hitting a ball. In Module 8 we learn to get control of lowpoint… also without a ball. We then put a ball in the way to test it all out.
The ball tells us everything we need to know along with our divot.
Even if I was measured on the GEARS machine as a prototype, it would not show another golfer what to do to fix the issue or how to achieve the proper protocols for the shaft, clubhead and clubface. It’s not going to demonstrate "squeeze here, apply force here, stretch this or that, push off the right foot when the club is here or there, or when to apply active forearm rotation or how to hold wristcock through the strike etc…
Outside of just a general curiosity regarding the latest in technology, I doubt that the questions I would have would be answered appropriately with a prescription to fix anything.