i´m trying to understand the differences for a Flat vs Upright swing on the Downswing. I´ve taken a couple pictures of Kuchar vs. Furyk - starting close to P3 until impact. I understand how they get to P2, and i understand that they have to have a different motion from the top to get to (a similar) P3, but i have a hard time understanding the differences from flat vs. upright when they come close to P3 until impact.
Flat - Kuchar
Believe it or not, Furyk is actually flatter/shallower than Kuchar through impact. Kuchar has that 1 planer hitch outside action that is caused by their interpretation of ‘flat’ which is actually fake. He’s toe down with high hands in that particular shot which a lot of those 1 planers are- it’s a flawed concept imo. Kuchar is obviously a great player and knows how to get the club on the ball, but I’m not a big fan of the overall action. Furyk’s backswing enables him to find that inward/lower slot(for him) and he carries the club through with his rotation. During his downswing his arms are coming back in towards his body which then carries them through, whereas Kuchar’s are working away from him a result of the too deep to bent over action.
Okay, so what i see with my untrained eyes, in the first picture his shaft seems to go more “through his shoulder” compared to Furyk or Kuchar who are nearer to their elbow?
But once he is in the “slot” - again it looks quite similar to me, obv. the trained eye probably will find a lot more differences?
It’s kind of a join the dots deal with this stuff, and impact, even though they can appear similar, isn’t the end of the road. A better way to tell what they’re doing is from a pre impact position to a post impact position because anyone on tour will look pretty good AT impact- the journey THROUGH impact will dictate how often they’re likely to repeat it and how solid they’ll tend to strike it. These guys all know how to get the club on the ball which is why they’re as good as they are for the most part- consistency is another matter.
The big difference between Furyk and the other 2 at impact is the shoulder alignment- Furyk’s are flatter and more unwound which is a giveaway of the fact that his body is carrying the club through… the R arm too, especially Cink vs. Furyk. Cink throws the club at it with quite passive legs/pivot- I’ll add some photos from the other side post impact of both…
I haven’t looked at the stats… but I would guess that Furyk would be a much better ball striker than the other two… I could be wrong…
but when Bradley and I were at the President’s Cup, Furyk and Tim Clarke where the only two players we say that seemed to be controlling
the golf ball in a way that I would consider professional.
I like Furyks golf swing very much… very mechanically sound. I would want him on my team.
One thing to note is that you can make a lot of things work when you are playing and hitting balls everyday…
However… most of us don’t. Therefore, learning excellent technique can do wonders. And if you have excellent technique AND
can play and hit balls everyday… then the sky is really the limit.
When I was an upright CF dumper… my ball striking was very hot and cold… and I had to grind a lot of balls to keep my game in shape.
Now I play maybe once a week, zero practice, and I hit the ball as good as I did when I was on tour, much more consistent because my
technique is much better now than it was then. Also setting up my gear properly has helped a lot also. I only wish I knew then what I know now…!
The other thing that shouldn’t be underestimated with Furyk’s action is his grip- he has a double overlap with his right hand because he like to keep it passive(part of his lack of length but at the same time, his consistency imo). And if I’m not mistaken, I think I remember a while ago him playing around with a triple overlap because he felt his right hand was getting too involved. Make a few swings with either of those grips and you’ll find your self looking for new power sources pretty quickly. It has a similar sensation to Hogan’s recommendation of swinging with the thumb and index finger off the club. Faldo in his book from the early 90’s also talked about the disastrous possibilities that come with an overactive right side during transition- he also recommended holding the R wrist angle through impact. 3 pretty decent strikers hitting on similar themes starts to sound like some sort of truth.
Yep.
Another interesting thing about that grip of Furyk( 2 fingers overlapped), is that it was advied by Paul Bertholy( but not necessarily to Furyk)…who was Moe’s “teacher”. But Moe used a ten finger grip.
Other than noticing that Furyk an dMoe are at opposite ends of the spectrum at impact in regards to hand position( Furyk low, close to body…Moe hiigh, away from body)…I don’t know if all this ties together.
So i looked up the stats for Furyk and Cink and averaged them for 2009 & 2010 (there are no big discrepancies within those two years in each stat category):
Furyk:
70,1 % Avg. Fairways hit
66,5 % GIR
33,2 (feet i guess) proximity to the hole for approach shots
274 y Avg. driving distance
Cink:
61,1 % Avg. Fairways hit
65,92 % GIR
35,65 (feet i guess) proximity to the hole for approach shots
292 y Avg. driving distance
So despite being longer off the tee, and about the same amount of GIR hit than Furyk, Furyk sticks it closer from a further away distance and hits more greens. And considering that Furyk is one of the shorter hitters thats quite an accomplishment imo. I´m only mentioning Avg. driving distance, because the longer you drive it, the more you spray it, thats just a scientific fact!
I also looked at Kuchar´s stats, and they are also more on the “accurate” side. 2009 seemed to be a year where he struggele a bit with his ballstriking, but 2008 & 2010 looks pretty consistent.
Conclusion - when it comes down to Ballstriking, Stewart Cink is the least accurate compared to the other two guys.
Would it be correct to say that due to less plane shifting that a flat, more rotational swing produces, it causes less stress on the back (from a health point of view) or “am i´m barking at the wrong tree here”?
Good stuff NRG!
You have way more knee bend and you’re also much flatter into impact!
Was this just a matter of grinding the modules in your back yard?
Night and day difference NRG- both literally and figuratively! Nice work.
Couple questions if you don’t mind. What is the difference in lie angles between the two clubs and are you, in the R picture, rolling it open, or rotating the forearms so you can get the R elbow a little more in front of the action?
