Few quotes on todays Equipment (Outside of ABS forum)

Public Forum—Concepts in Advanced Ball Striking
1

Was reading thru on some other forums and thought this was a excellent example of why we want the weight in the center right behind the sweetspot!

Obviously this guy gets it!

“Think of this comparison – driving a nail. Which would be more efficient, a hammer or similar weight iron skillet? The weight is the same, but the hammer concentrates the weight directly behind the impact for efficiency. Golf clubs work the same way. The more mass you put directly behind the ball at impact, the more efficient transfer of energy you are going to have.”

Here are some other quotes from people on todays technology!

“I’ve read that with all the innovations in club technology the average golf handicap has not changed.”

“When you’re striking the ball well, that’s when you want the feedback, creating increasing confidence with each successive swing. You just can’t wait to hit the next shot because you know it will be pure. If you’re miss-hitting the ball, the forgiveness is fine but your score will stink.”

“I don’t think it’s a well kept secret that the club manufacturers some year back took loft of the irons and lengthened the shafts to fool the player into believing he was hitting less club than with his old blades. What they did really is took the old 5 iron and mark it today as a 6 iron, and so on down through the set. Clever, eh?”

“At 62 yrs. old, I too hanker for the blades to return to my bag.”

“In 1972, I met PGA tour player and former NCAA all-American, Johnny Miller at Snoopy’s Redwood Classic in Santa Rosa, California. He was still playing with McGregor irons made in the 1940s or so. The shafts were coated with some kind of green material…not chromed…not frequency matched and who know what flex. He may have still been playing them when he won the US Open the following year.
I remain skecptical that techological “advances” are anything but marketing ploys.”

“In the current crop of blades on the market, some rather loosely use the definition, as they have moved a considerable amount of mass from behind the sweet spot, which completely defeats the purpose of playing a blade.”

“This line of posts, about blades, has continued to attract the most commentary of anything I’ve written this year, and shows that golfers are weary of the “you can’t play” diatribe fed to them by the manufacturers. You CAN play, and better than even you might believe.”

2

Here are a few quotes from this article linked below. Its a great read if you have time to read the whole article…
http://www.pgaprofessional.com/golf_entertainment_articles/my_take02_technology_and_clubs.html#.UAkOP_WXlvY

“Ah, remember the good old days, when what separated the men from the boys (women from the girls?) in golf was the ability to hit a great 2 iron? Now, many more people can buy the same result, in some cases for as little as a hundred dollars or so, in the form of a utility wood or hybrid. And remember when a 430 yard par 4 was a “monster,” where you had a 5 iron left in to the green after a good tee shot, or maybe a 6 iron if you really killed it? Now par 4’s can be 500 yards long in order to play similarly. I guess inflation is everywhere.”

“And now somebody can buy a 250-300 yard drive who could not have hit one with the older equipment. Of course, that means that the people who were hitting 250-300 yard drives with the older equipment are now hitting 300-350 yard drives, so where’s the upside? One thing that has been mentioned as a downside numerous times – but that doesn’t make it any less true – is that some of the older classic golf courses with shorter yardages are now obsolete, so golf spectators don’t get to see them any more. That is a shame, I suppose, but to me it’s really just a matter of enough is enough.”

“I would be just as happy if everything went back to about any version of pre-1970’s standards (course yardages, ball compressions, etc.). My main interest is in technique, skill and acquired feel, which come from (lots of) knowledge, time and experience, trial and error, and practice. Trying to make golf easier through technology kind of defeats its purpose, to me. Golf is hard; that’s the challenge, that’s the “juice.””

The Olden Days (Poem)
by Mark Blakemore

When woods were wood you just had to be good
No “hybrids”, no “oversize”, no “forgiving”

To play a long iron was an artistic thing
And in those days the golf clubs didn’t make my ears ring

If we went back to hickory that would suit me just fine
Though I wonder if the number of golfers wouldn’t quickly decline

That’s what it boils down to in the end, always is
Inflation, profitability, the numbers – it’s just BIZ.

3

What this guy ‘gets’ is just hearsay. We aren’t hammering a nail into solid objects that requires heavy force. We are hitting an object that merely weighs 1.6oz with nothing in front of it to resist its movement. A better analogy would be tennis. If the hammer analogy was accurate, then tennis rackets would be solid objects with weight behind sweet spot. Besides, a heavy frying pan of same weight as hammer would hammer in a nail exactly the same and at same effort required. All the physics are there in Search for the Perfect Swing.

I love my blades as much as the next person here. But the mythical legends they are made out to be are silly. If all we had was still blades golf would be played by millions less and a struggling sport. CB’s introduction is a huge reason for the growth of the game.

Why dont traditionalists get rid of your sand wedges then? At one time (1935) the SW was “new technology” and allowed even amateurs to easily get out of bunkers. Were there traditionalists in 1940 that said it ruined the game? “you can just not care about bunkers anymore and hit it free nilly out there.If you land in one the SW gets you out in one attempt”…

4

I vote for shrinking the game. The growth of golf is more like a cancer tumor. Cut and remove with a blade.

Golf is a game, not a mutual fund.

5

The vast majority of amateurs out there have no aspirations of becoming wold class golfers and are perfectly happy posting +90 scores because they view golf in the right perspective and that being that golf is a game or recreational activity spent with friends and/or family. Naturally the golf industry will create products which suite the ability of amateurs because they out number pros by a very large margin. Nothing wrong with this. Amateurs should be the driving force behind the majority of golf equipment.

I agree with the perspective that pros should play to a different standard which includes less forgiving equipment and more challenging golf courses. But to compare the growth of the game (ie more amateurs interested in the game) to a cancer tumor is inappropriate and an unfortunate use of words especially from the moderator of this forum.

6

Is more always better?

7

I couldn’t agree more. What has these “millions” of new golfers done for the game? Its made “millions” of dollars for the equipment companies. Nothing that I can see for “me”.

8

Why do your needs trump those of millions? If you think the problem is that there are too many golfers out there in the whole wide world then why not lead by example and stop playing the game altogether? Be the change you want to see in the world.

And dont you think that one of the benefits is the huge selection of public golf courses out there. Without the numbers they could not all survive. I think it’s great to be able to play on a different course each week. I choose to play with blades and persimmon because that’s my choice. If others want to play with super game improvement clubs and frying pans then that’s their choice too. To each their own.

I think it’s possible to decouple the degradation at the highest levels of play from the “cancerous” millions of amateurs. It simply has to do with regulations and thats it. More stringent standards are required for pros. I don’t blame the large companies from making money off the game as it stands. It’s called the free market and they are damn good at it. The USGA is the culprit and not your everyday hacker or club making company.

9

At the very heart of the problem is that to make golf more appealing for televison coverage (where the REAL money is), bomb & gouge gets promoted. The typical American sports fan that isn’t a golf fanatic doesn’t care about how many greens a player hits or whether top notch ballstriking is rewarded. Bubba and Dustin and Rickie are exciting. Tiger was an exception to the rule becasue he was so mind-blowingly dominant. But generally speaking, John Daly-type golfers are more tv friendly than the next George Knudson would be. Some stiff that has a great shot reportoire but doesn’t hit it a mile and doesn’t give great interviews isn’t going to sell.

To win over NASCAR, MLB, NFL, and NBA fans, the integrity of golf had to be compromised. Guys with wooden woods shaping balatas around the course and artfully carving iron shots through the sky only appeals to golfers. It’s just like the steroid problem in baseball. The community around the game looks the other way because it sells and makes for good TV. The money is too good to try and protect the game. So in that sense, trying to popularize golf inevitably led to dumbing it down considerably.

It’s totally unrealistic to think that the pros could play a different game and the manufacturers still be as successful as they are. The Tour is the best marketing tool ever invented for peddling 460 CC 9 ounce drivers. All the staff bags full of the latest and greatest is a great strategy. With all the young guys hitting it 320 out there, the average hack believes they could buy some of that distance.

If Tiger and Phil and Bubba were playing forged blades and persimmons every week on TV, would Nike and Taylormade and Ping and Callaway still be so successful?

10

One of my friends sent me a text message of an article written by Pete Dye recently

“If I ran the world, those guys would not be hitting the ball as far as they do today. But I don’t run the world.
Do you think if Hogan had hit that famous 1 iron to the 18th at Merion with an 8 iron, it would have been as famous? Not a chance
I have an original letter from Donald Ross dating back to 1928 that talks about green speeds increasing at an alarming rate. Talk about being ahead of his time.
Personally I would take the stimpmeter and throw it out the window. They say they want to keep the greens uniform… I say …why? Who put that in the rule book? The stimpmeter is the biggest farce ever in golf”

11

What has the growth of the game done?

Raised maintenance costs because there are too many courses competing and the majority of new golfers expect unsustainable agronomy.

Too much water being used because new players expect deep green fairways and perfect greens.

Increased greens fees way beyond the rate of inflation to pay for costs and other non golf related amenities such as elaborate clubhouses etc.

Done away with caddies in place of golf carts so the courses can make more money, not the kids.

Done away with promoting the more healthy option of walking the course, often requiring players to take carts.

Littered courses with cart paths.

Eliminated the persimmon club makers because it’s not cost effective to make them with so many people playing now.

Eliminated the persimmon club repair craftsman because it’s cheaper to pop a metal wood out of a mold.

Eliminated the balata golf ball because it’s not cost effective.

Banned steel spikes because hackers drag their feet and complain to each other about.

Has moved uneducated golfers into positions of power in organizations like the USGA to help them understand the new mass dynamic.

Obsoleting the games classic historic tracks in exchange for courses that promote the new gear.

Created powerful corporations that could not care less about the integrity and historical significance of the game.

Slowed down the pace of play.

No, the growth of the game is not all good.

Golf has always been popular. Nothing wrong with it being a niche sport either. Golf will always attract a certain type of person. It doesn’t need to be the world’s most popular sport.

I’m sure most surfers are not excited about the proposition of millions of people running out into the waves.

I have no doubt that real golfers who feel and connect with the game on a deeper level will find their way to the fairways and be more than welcomed by those that truly love the game also. But to promote the game to the masses in such a way that the game itself has been massively compromised in an attempt to please everyone is tragic for the game.

12

Boy has this topic gone off the reservation. :open_mouth:

I don’t see a disdain for more amateur golfers from this group. Most of us are amateur golfers. Bobby Jones was an amateur his whole life and I doubt anyone here would ban him from playing their local course (if he were alive today).

There are basically two types of golfers to me. Neither has anything to do with golfing ability or the equipment they play.

THE GOLFER

  1. A golfer is someone who plays the game for challenge of the game.
  2. A golfer respects the traditions, rules and etiquette of the game.
  3. A golfer respects the golf course.
  4. A golfer respects himself and the others in his group and others on the course including those who work there.
  5. A golfer will keep up the pace of play or if a faster/smaller group plays behind them, lets them go by.
  6. A golfer fixes his divots/ballmarks, rakes the sand traps he was in and when time permits fixes other peoples.
  7. A golfer teaches others (family/friends) about the traditions, rules and etiquette of golf and brings them to the appropriate course/times to play on. (Executive courses, late afternoon quiet times).
  8. A golfer appreciates not only his accomplishments on the course but of his playing partners and competitors.
  9. A golfer tries to improve their game no matter what level they play at. They appreciate the handicap system and respects others level of play.
  10. A golfer has a relationship to his local course or club and tries to keep the health of the course going. Whether it is by just simply being a good patron or by bringing other golfers to play there. He also tips generously as he can to support the people that work there.
  11. A golfer will play regularly and will play as long as their health will allow them. After all golf is a game for life.
  12. A golfer who goes to a professional tournament and applauds appropriately whether it is a clapping of the hands or a verbal “Atta boy!!!”. From his knowledge of golf etiquette knows when to move and when to be still and silent as the players make their play. If he drinks at all at the tournament he drinks in moderation.

THE CONSUMER

  1. A consumer plays the game to show off. Either to show off by having expensive equipment/clothes/greens fees, and or by showing off their golfing prowess or perceived prowess.
  2. A consumer doesn’t bother with rules and etiquette. He’ll use any equipment or device available to help his game whether legal or not. Just grip it and rip it!!!
  3. A consumer starts the round not with a 6 pack of golf balls but a 6 pack of beer. Nothing like being able to drink at 9:00 am on a Sunday morning. If you did that anywhere else they would call you an alcoholic.
  4. A consumer plays the course at their leisure and pace of play with no concern of others. They paid their money, now they own the course for their time.
  5. A consumer doesn’t let other players through their group even if they are slowing play. Or if they perceive slow play ahead, they might go ahead and hit into the group ahead to “help” push them along.
  6. A consumer doesn’t care about fixing divots or ballmarks or raking traps because they won’t be playing this course again for a while if ever, so no need to worry about preserving conditions for themselves let alone others. Besides, the grounds crew can fix it.
  7. A consumer brings his drinking buddies/wives/kids onto the course who have never played before and wonders why they aren’t having as good a time as he is showing them how to play. Never mind the 5 hole gap ahead of him with groups backed up behind him.
  8. A consumer over-celebrates his success on shots and teases his companions or competitors short comings.
  9. A consumer doesn’t worry about trying to improve their game. They read a tip in Golf Digest on how to get 10 extra yards with the driver or can simply buy the latest driver that promises those 10 yards. They don’t respect the abilities of others and if they don’t play from the tips, they are “GIRLY MONS!!!”
  10. A consumers plays where ever he thinks he can get the “best deal” out of it and over tips the cart girl (can I get yer digits?) and under tips everyone else. Then when he can’t “get her digits”, goes on to another course for their best deal. Nothing sadder than an older married guy with kids trying to hit up the cart girl that is 3 years younger than his own daughter.
  11. A consumer may only play golf as long as they think it is the fad and in-thing to do. Then they will quit as quickly.
  12. A consumer who goes to a professional tournament inappropriately yells and attempts to get his scream caught on television to prove to his drinking buddies that he was there. He also doesn’t restrain himself to drinking at appropriate levels. “I’m the guy that yelled “UTERUS!!!” on the 3rd tee”, may be his refrain to his buds or whatever the passing golf meme of “IN THE HOLE!” or “YOU DA MAN!!!” of the time may be used instead. He also doesn’t heed the signs of the course marshals and doesn’t seem to know where the off button is on his “smart” phone.

I can go much further but it gets to be a bore (Or the subject of a new website :smiley: ).

I can tell you that millions more of “The Golfer” we can do with. Zero more and even a loss of “The Consumer” we also can do with.
You tell me what is the healthy growth of golf versus what is the cancer of golf? It’s not just having more people playing golf.

BTW, they didn’t used to call Tuberculosis having the “consumption” for nothing.

Wow, TB and Cancer in the same threads. We really have gone off on a tangent. :smiling_imp:

13

There must be a middle ground, I seem to have some consumer tendencies.

The Golfer and Consumer points just overlaps in many ways. I enjoy the challenge of golf but I would also try to show off sometimes by trying to out drive my buddies using the old persimmon. We at one point over celebrate an eagle, birdie if we haven’t had one for awhile. In most groups I’ve played everyone gets teased if they don’t hit past the ladies tee, or leaves a putt way too short. I read a golf tip and try to see if it works, I buy Lag’s irons and drivers because it promises better accuracy.

14

If you show off on occasion, have too much fun on the course, and buy Lag’s old clubs instead of brand new ones from a dying breed of persimmon club makers, then it would appear my friend…that you are cancerous growth :open_mouth:

just kidding dude!

15

Well, we all give each other some good natured ribbing and maybe even a bit of gamesmanship but it’s done in the spirit of sportsmanship. We all want to do better than others and even ourselves. Nothing wrong with that. Doing a moonwalk on the green because you beat yer buddy over a hole that he double bogeyed and that you bogeyed while saying, “IN YER FACE!!! I WIN! YOU LOSE!!!” is more of what I’m talking about. It’s the degree to which you do those things and the spirit in which they are done.

We all buy things, but we don’t necessarily have to buy it to show off that I have the latest and greatest and you don’t. How many times have you seen someone with the full out “Pro” golfer look. Shoes, pants, belts, shirts hat even magnetic bracelet that has a brand new Titleist staff bag with a full set of brand new irons and the latest drivers and a Snotty Cameron putter etc. Then you watch the fantasy disappears as soon as they take their first swing. Just another weekend hack like the rest of us. Buying equipment that will or at least can improve your swing isn’t an issue. You can buy stuff and still not be a consumer. Look at an Apple store when the latest iThing comes out and watch the line up go around the corner after camping out for a few days be an example of a consumer. Mindless consumers that buy what they tell you to.

See how many points you fit into in either category and then you can figure out which side of the line you fall on. Most likely, you will fall in the golfer category as would most posters here. No one will be perfectly on one side or the other. Shades of gray and all.

16

These type of guys crack me up! Dress like a pro, but swings like a hack! This is why i dress casually in my normal attire. Keeps the attention away from me so i can concentrate on my game, while everyone else is looking at the Pro Hacker.

Dont get me wrong though, i would rather have someone dress like a pro then someone showing up in a wife-beater with cuttoff jean shorts in their sandals, unless they swing like a pro! Then I would say, do whatever you want! haha

My friend just bought the new Adams CMB irons and i was playing with my ABS Macgregor’s. He mentioned a few times why dont i buy newer clubs to hit, those ancient clubs will only hold you back. I turned around and told him, I shot 79 and you shot a 87. Why would i need new clubs for?? He just hesitated for a second and said “whatever, you are going the opposite way from technology. Everyone is seeking the newest stuff, while you are seeking the oldest stuff.” I just smiled…and said good! more for me. haha

You cant BUY a good golf swing with new equipment. But these club manufacturing company’s have made true believers to 90% of the population and they are damn good at it.

A good swing has to be learned and trained, and the fastest/most efficient way to learn is with non-forgiving blades and persimmons that can give you instant feedback. That’s my opinion.

But then again, 75% of the population is happy shooting in the 90s and 100s every weekend. If only the new equipment could silence their cussing after every shot, that would be a plus! :smiley:

17

I definitely agree that golf fashion has taken a turn for the worst at some point. I’m reminded of that vintage picture of Hogan and Palmer smoking on the tee box. Doesn’t get cooler than this that’s for sure. Heck, Arnold’s pants are too short and he still looks bad ass!
Ben_Hogan_and_Arnold_Palmer_Smoking.png