Extra HP needed?

I picked up three new persimmons today and took them straight to the range.

They are Macgregor Tourneys with the keyhole insert and a model number on the sole near the toe stamped “C2W”
This is only my second persimmon driver, and I have the same problem with this one … I find it hard to “get it up.”
This driver likes to hit low bullets that seem to only be about 15 feet or less of the deck at apex.
Does anyone else find this with persimmons?

My flight with this thing seems to be about 2/3 air time and 1/3 roll.
It rolls forever, but I really have to work to get this thing up in the air.


Ok, who changed the title?

Are you answering the question with this change?
Are you saying that it is just a matter of clubhead speed?

Show yourself shakes angry fist in the air

Hi Photonn,

Yes, in general, I have the same problem and I’m still tweaking several drivers/ball combo’s. My course plays very wet most of the year so the launch is important to me as well. My theory is that our ABS swings might produce lower spin rates and so do the new balls. I hit some of my best drives into the wind relatively speaking. Have you tried a 2-wood yet? I played with JFischer this Spring and he nails his 2-wood. I can launch a shallow faced persimmon driver but haven’t got the right deep faced flat/heavy driver to my liking yet.

Well, I finally have a more satisfying answer to this question.
I recently picked up a decent club spec gauge that allows me to measure loft and lie on a club.

This driver has 8* of loft!
This is measured at the center of the face, and there is not much bulge/roll on it either.
At the top of the face, it is 9*.

Ok, now we have the answer.
Maybe with a high-spinning balata ball, I could get some rise.
But with today’s balls, I just don’t have the clubhead speed for this stick.

So, I am still looking for a good driver or maybe 2-wood.
I like about 11* of loft on a driver.

Good digging Photonn…Just as an update, I found a 693T MacG on the cheap and it has 12 degrees…It’s about perfect for me regarding loft. Now I just need to flatten that dude…and crank it up over 14 oz… :nerd:

Anything new here Photonn? What happens to your launch when you hit slightly down on the ball with the driver?

I have been busy working on this problem.
I have been acquiring 2-woods and am happy in general with the trajectory.


On the left is a MacGregor M75W. I just refinished it and added tungsten under the soleplate.
That seems to have been a mistake. With this added weight ( I brought the club up to just shy of 14 ounces), the shaft now feels very soft.
So, I plan to drop a different shaft in it soon.

The middle is a MacGregor MT1W. It also needs a shaft, because the one in there is making an awful creaking noise around the hosel.
I would like to just re-epoxy the existing shaft as I have hit some good drives with this club.
I have stopped hitting it as I don’t yet know if the neck is cracking or what exactly is making the noise.

Lastly, on the right is a Hogan that I just bought for $9.00. I have yet to hit this club.
But for a total of $49, I think one of these will work pretty well.
I also plan to find a driver with more loft at some point too.
This is harder as most E-Bay auctions don’t list a loft … so you are just guessing.

As part of this exploration, I discovered that I needed some whipping thread to re-whip the hosels.
After some internet research, I found that Ashaway was a company still making whipping.
So, I ordered a spool.


The smallest spool they sell is 2000 yards.
It is not terribly expensive, it is just a lot of material.

So, if any of you need to re-whip just a club or two, PM me.
I have more whipping than I will ever use.
I would be glad to help out.


Thanks for posting about the whipping.

4000yds on it’s way.

Wow, someone has got alot of woods to reshaft or plans to do alot. :smiley:

I went to the site but they only had listing for racquets mostly. Did you have to do the custom cords option? If so, what specs?

What was the quoted price for 2000 yds, if you don’t mind saying either of you?

I’m thinking I should buy a spool and just keep it around since I have been collecting several wood sets and will probably need to rebore/rewhip them eventually. That stuff has been hard to find since none of the regular golf shops carry that anymore (i.e. Golfsmith/PGA Superstore/Golfworks).

I’d take Photonn up on his generous offer but I would need more than just a few clubs worth…

Thanks for the info so far. At least I know they still make whipping somewhere.

It was either 500 or 4000 yds over here. I figured 4000 would last me a lifetime. Cost was £60+VAT.


It was not listed on the website. It is not a popular product any longer.

I called a salesperson and told her what I was doing and she knew what I was looking for.
The price for the spool was about $57.
They have a $100 minimum order, that she violated for me to just order 1 spool.

I will take a picture of the label on the end of the spool so that you can see the part number and be certain.

How much length does it take to whip a club?
I have not done it yet… waiting until the weekend to watch the Masters and work on this.
I am guessing less than 10 yards. Anyone ever measure it?

In my experience, between 4 and 5 yards per club.

Photonn, thanks for the info. Looks like I’d have to get 4000 yards then. LOL!

I have also looked at monofiliment fishing line as another possible solution. Only problem is that fishing line is clear/blueish so I might have to paint it but since I have to lacquer it anyway what’s another step?

Yes, please let me know the part# and any specs such as thickness and material type. I might be able to take my micrometer to the local sporting goods store and find some fishing line that might match if it is just monofiliment line.

Appreciate the info you have given so far.

Thank you.


Are you in the UK? If so, you may have another option that would be cheaper.

Here is the thread on another golf board that lead me to the Ashaway whipping cord

But, read the last post at the bottom of the page.
Older clubs used to use a linen thread that was tarred or pitched for water resistance.
That lead me to Crawford thread company (in Belfast).
They make a waxed linen thread in black that works well.
I would get a 2-cord or 3-cord spool, as these are closest to the right diameter.
I have a spool of 2-cord and think it is a little thin … I would like to see the 3-cord in person.


You should be able to find this stuff, if you are in the UK.
Notice, the spool pictured is a spool of 4-cord thread.

Until now all I’ve been able to find and use was the waxed twine type which is fine, but probably more in keeping with the early persimmon era. I really like this new stuff which is much thinner and more modern in persimmon terms and way cheaper too.

No, I’m in the USA. I have seen the older linen on some of my older Macs but most of the stuff is the “fishing line” type of whipping. I think I prefer latter type, it just seems cleaner/easier to whip with. Couldn’t imagine trying to get tar onto the linen without making a mess.

Maybe I should take some of the whipping off one of my clubs and mic it to get a sizing. Although the link pointed to “.022” diameter braided nylon thread as his other option. I’ll have to look at the fishing line and see if I can get a match, then try whipping with it.

I’ll let you know how it goes with that experiment.

Here is the label on the Ashaway spool.


Here is a comparison between the Ashaway whipping (left) and the Crawford waxed thread (right)


I think you missed the point about the waxed thread just a little.
The wax takes the place of the old pitch.
You don’t need to add anything to the Crawford thread, just use it.

Oh, I see what you mean about the waxed linen vs. pitched linen. Yeah the older wood club I have has the pitched linen. I think I prefer ashaway line.