Dave Stockton

One of the best analogies I’ve ever heard…

youtube.com/watch?v=RHLJWHXl … re=related

Nice to see a few of the greats putting up some youtube tips for the world to ponder. I liked the Crenshaw putting stuff.

Makes me want to go get an 8802 and roll it around with one, just feeling the speed and not over thinking the putt.

It’s a nice theory.

Crenshaw never talks technique… just comfort, speed and feel…

I watched him on the putting green from about 10 feet away on the practice green at the Australian Open one year…
I couldn’t believe how much he looped the putterhead around. Then what Alvie told me a couple years later explained why.

Stockton is also big on just going to auto pilot.

Lag - I’ve always liked Stockton’s stuff. I do seem to remember a post of yours concerning the time you spent with Alvie Thompson in Canada. From what I remember of it - he seemed to like hitting the ball on the “downbeat” (as mentioned in Al Barkow’s new book, ‘The Final Word on Putting’). Really good stuff in Al’s book - my putting is coming around again after a long absence - can’t wait for my first tournament in March. When I was a kid coming up in the game (late 60’s) I did notice that a lot of good players hit their short putts on the “downbeat” as Al mentioned about Lloyd Mangrum. I’m not sure exactly “why” it works - but it does!

Bobby Locke also looped it. Almost came over the top of it! :open_mouth:

when the Shark was putting real well in the mid 80’s, he lined the ball up on the toe and looped back into it…

That is exactly what Locke advocates in his book. Not to go TGM on everyone but I believe that is the rationale behind Homer’s 2-J-1

“…Clubface alignment also includes the requirement that the center of the Clubhead arc be so located that the Clubface strikes the ball before it strikes the ground. If the Clubface is centered on the ball while soled behind it any distance whatsoever, the radius of the Clubhead arc must be shortened or the Club will meet the ground precisely where it had been soled…”

It makes sense, right? Even on the greens the putter is coming into the ball a little higher than it was set at address (if soled that is) So if you hold the putter at impact height and just lower the putter it will naturally “fall” towards the toe if addressed. Or do it like Jack, don’t sole it! Thanks for the Shark tidbit! George Lowe addressed it towards the heel, but I think that had something to with where he felt the sweetspot was in heel shafted putter.


You played a lot with Greg,
I remember him setting it up on the toe also, but did he loop it under or over? I suppose you could do it either way.

I was using that push shove out to the right thing when I was putting my best…but I was doing a more delofting drag over the ball, aiming way left and blocking it into the hole.

Was Norman blocking them a bit?

He lined it up in the toe…had a narrow open stance…took it back reasonably straight and did like a block push stroke like you suggest-- and had a great run of making lots of putts for a while there- certainly putted his best with this stroke… once he got more squarer and lined up sqaurer and ball in middle of putter, he had a tendency to still push through the stroke and he ended up missing a few short ones because of a heel strike which made the ball shoot left slightly…(playoff in 93 PGA against Azinger proves this idea)…they had a good close up of stroke and you can see the push out/heel strike and ball started left and spun out from only a few feet to give Zinger the win…

You may be able to see by the stroke added up-- line up toe…back straight…push shove through to strike ball in center of the putter face

Crenshaw also said that keeping his head down always made him feel too stiff so he preferred to just move freely. I love that idea. I don’t putt well by trying to keep my head down or anything like that. I’m much more comfortable being a part of the line and putt. It was cool to hear him validate that as an option. Faxon is another guy who moves freely as he putts. He has always been a guy I’ve looked to for putting. He never practices a lot of short putts, preferring to focus on pace and getting it on line from long distance. The thinking being that if you can get it on line from 40 feet then it should be easy from 3 or 4 feet. That thinking and way of going about practice had a huge effect on how I putted. I really let myself grow in confidence in my short putts as a result of my long putts- and I was pretty weak from short range when I was younger. I really don’t like the short putt repetition idea, it creates too much stress I reckon…

Thanks for the GN pics, Twomasters. Nothing like the sight of photo evidence in the morning! Bom, I have noticed (my tendency anyway) that I tend to steer the putter head above plane when I keep my head glued down. i.e. too much out to right field. I do believe that swiveling your head down the target line is all the head movement you “need.” Loads of ways to skin this cat!

Norman (and Crenshaw) have both putted using a Wilson 8802 (or maybe 8814) and I think that may be what he is using in the pics above.

I think Norman went back to his 8802/14 when he contended at the Brit Open and for the next couple of weeks, when he putted really well, too. Crenshaw also uses one almost all the time.

Interesting point on them is that the sweetspot is actually right by the heel, it’s not in the middle of the blade. All the weight is in the heel as well: the toe basically points at the ground when you hold it in your hand (most modern putters are face balanced).

On the 8814, the sweetspot is between the ‘aim line’ on top of the putter and the heel. The 8802 is even more no frills: no aim line.

You can really set your hands ahead of the ball and hit a putt solidly - sweet poppy feel as you contact the ball. Awesome distance control. Takes a bit of work/research to understand the putter and get it going though…it certainly didn’t feel like a good purchase on day one!

On another point: is it just me or are most of the real top drawer putters Americans? Aside from Padraig Harrington, it certainly seems that way.

Maybe it’s cos the US has better gurus: Dave Stockton and Jack Burke Jr to name two. Can’t think of a Euro based guru who compares - most of the Euro Tour gurus are science types rather than ex-players.

Yeah I think with putting you have to ‘feel’ free to move, but maybe not do a whole lot of it. Like the golf swing, there is a full body event taking place but because the goal is so small, less motion is required. I’ve found that tying myself up with rigid machine type thoughts has just as negative an effect on my putting as they do on my full swing.