Current PGA tour

Our golf course is an Alister MacKenzie design of only 6,000m (6,600 yds). There used to be pro tournaments held on it regularly.

Not any more. It would be a pitch and putt for these guys now. We can’t adjust the course to suit, though - there’s no more real estate available to lengthen it.

However, it’s still a great test for average-length amateurs and even better if you use persimmon. Doglegs and fairway bunkers really come into play then. The major defence now is the amazing contours and slopes on some of the greens.

Unfortunately, as a course for professional events, a place like ours is now assigned to the dustbin of history. But all it would take is a limit on distance of the golf ball and clubs and it would become a challenge again straight away. Big difference trying to find the right sector on an intricately designed green with a 2 iron instead of a pitching wedge.

St Hubbins,
I could not agree more

Steve

Styles, I think today’s touring pros have poor golf swings. I think they hit it like garbage, and I am more than willing to challenge any of them to a 36 hole persimmon and blades game on the course of my choice. I will wager $500 of my own money and will confidently embarrass the hell out of them even though I don’t practice and only play maybe 3 rounds a month. So just let me know when you set this up… and we will go from there.
I will be more than happy to be proved wrong. :sunglasses:

They’d beat you john

Nope…

Bubba Watson…

39% fairways in regulation for the week… finishes second…

Ok

I actually like Bubba Watson. Anyone that would spend their hard earned tour money buying the original Dukes of Hazard “General Lee” 69 Charger has got to be a pretty good bloke!

Charg.jpg

Styles,
Words are cheap, John has put his coin up, put up or walk away

Steve

This is interesting. A new John Henry versus the machine…I’d watch.

usatoday.com/sports/golf/pga … lubs_N.htm

I actually think this match is an interesting idea, Lag. Not that you would necessarily be able to get one of the PGA guys but there’s always mini tour players looking for ways to make money. Not that they would be making money…

I would like to see a match like that. I know Bradley and John played a tournament with the old clubs last year in vegas, and i think Bradley won by a couple, im not sure how one the guys of tour now would have done, they would probably need to spend some time practicing with the old equipment first. If the match was played on a real course that really punished wild offline shots i think John would win over the 36 holes.

The point I am making here is not coming from any kind of arrogance. The modern golf swings are designed for distance only.
Not accuracy. The swings from the past were generally designed for accuracy, because there was an absolute premium placed on putting the ball in play and being much more precise with the iron play than what is going on today.

I was fortunate to play a few times with Corey Pavin in competitions, and it was just incredible that a guy who drove the ball about 225 off the tee could go out and shoot 66 on a very difficult golf course. I witnessed this twice with Corey when we played the Stanford Golf Course with thick wet rough, and again at North Ranch which is a very tough tight course just north of LA.

He did not miss one single fairway in either of those rounds… and the greens he missed were only the long par 4 greens he simply could not reach in two shots with a driver and 3 wood. But he would calculate where to miss short so his pitch shot would be positioned easiest to get up and down… which he would 90% of the time. He would hit a lot of 4 woods into greens and routinely hit them inside 20 feet from the hole. His golf swing was designed for accuracy. He rotated very level and worked the shaft through impact very much the same way Hogan did, Faldo did, Curtis Strange, even Cal Peete. With these swings, there is a rock solid connection between the core of the rotation and the clubhead. The lower torso moves in unison with the club through the impact arena even with the driver. This is the body pressuring the shaft with the big muscles in a very tangible way that is much more repeatable and is the proper way to swing the club for an accuracy based golf swing.

I don’t see many on tour these days swinging this way. The ones that do are actually the better ball strikers like Furyk and Joe Durant… but their advantage of accuracy has been taken away by the modern game. If a player like B Watson can hook the ball 50 yards left and have a wide open shot with a short iron then what is the point in learning to swing the club properly?

Well, a guy like Styles here might likely argue that this bomb and gouge swing is the proper swing to learn in today’s game…
and if a guy can hit only 39% of his fairways for the week and take home $800K as a reward for his fine golf… then one could argue that point… sure.

However, if you give a guy like this a small headed persimmon driver, some blade irons… a high spinning ball and force him to put the ball in play or else he makes triple bogey, then I say that the golf swing he is using currently is so far from what it would take to play real golf that he would have a big wake up call coming… and a guy like myself, just a washed up touring pro who plays just a handful of rounds a month, would not have much trouble beating him under such polarized conditions to what he has been accustomed to.

The Snedecker experiment I believe to be very accurate. He shot 80 when handed persimmon, blades and balata on tight course. He didn’t shoot 68, and hand the clubs back and say…"what’s the big deal here?

I agree that with a bit of practice he could get his scores down into the low 70’s but he would be a long way from going out and shooting 66 with that stuff. It would almost be like starting over.

In the first TRGA event, there was a mini tour pro from Nevada who had won recently, and obviously one of the better players in the area. When handed persimmon and blades he shot 88. Not 78… 88. I don’t think he even finished the second round. I beat him by 15 shots the first round. Not because I am a great player… I shot a 73… a decent round. Had Sam Randolph been in the field when he was playing his best, I would likely have been 6 shots back with a 73.

In the modern game… all you have to do is hit it a mile, have a phenomenal short game… putt the lights out, and just be a mediocre short iron player and you can play the tour. The guys that are the best at those qualities win events.

The way pro golf was set up before required a level of refinement far beyond what is going on today. One of the problems is that most of the quality strikers from the persimmon age have damaged their golf swings slowly over time using the modern lightweight clubs. Their muscle tone has been compromised and the receptors in the brain are not getting the precision feedback from the smaller sweetspots. I like feeling my misses. If I hit a thin shot off the toe with a long iron it’s like being electrocuted with 4000 volts going through my body. I really tend to avoid doing that again on the next shot.

Are you kidding me?!!

So if I say i will play tiger woods for $500 round my local track, I also get to say “he chickened out” if I don’t hear from woods? Lol, you expect me to take you seriously? Tell you what, i’ll put $500 up to play John round my local track. My bet is he won’t fly 8000 miles to take up the challenge…

Hugo hadn’t touched persimmon for years and yet he beat you John and Hugo wasn’t even on the main tour at that time.

Irons are irons. If the pros were struggling with the woods they would just hit 3 iron everywhere. I’d imagine it would be embarrassing for you over 36 holes and hope for your sake no one ever does take your challenge as your credibility would be shot.

It seems like every three months or so you come around and start talking trash, sitting behind your keyboard throwing mud. Styles, this is the advanced ballstriking forum, advanced being the key word here. Like-minded folks come here because they believe in the protocols being taught and have had success with it. It’s not the bomb and gouge forum, so you can expect a spirited rebuttal to your foolishness. You’ve been called out and you’re becoming a laughingstock. Stop being a dickhead.

On my phone Paul so no keyboard.

Im expressing an opinion, no need for name calling.

Styles,

We are all just expressing opinions here. From my perspective, I’m not impressed with the modern players at all. They are playing par 68’s every week. 16 under is just the old even par. The swings in general are not very good and the ball striking is substandard compared to the greats of the past. No comparison. Being at best a part time golfer, I would have no reservations or fear about playing any of them on a proper golf course with a persimmon and blades game. I would love to be proven wrong… but I am willing to bet that at the end of the round I am $500 richer. I have no problem losing… but I would not suggest such a thing unless I truly believed such a bet was slightly in my favor… just like weighted dice or a stacked deck of cards. I’ll try to set something like this up in the next year. Maybe I can get such a match set up with one of the SF bay area touring pros. It’s doable.

As far a Bradley, he’s a persimmon master player. I’m talking about the younger players who have never had the opportunity to fine tune their games with proper gear on much more challenging courses. It’s not the players fault… it’s really unfortunate for them in their pursuit of the mastery of golf. Bradley is a more accomplished player than I am. I was lucky to at least to put a bead of sweat on his forehead coming down the final hole of the TRGA Classic.

Doesn’t Hugo advocate, study, practice and teach the same mantra that Lag does. Am I correct that your saying that as far as mechanics are concerned, that the ABS protocol played by one person beats the ABS protocol played by another.

What’s your point.

I have found through personal experience that the ABS protocols for ball striking generate consistently better shots than “modern” golf instruction…at least for me. My guess is that most of the posters on this site have discovered the same thing.

Being irritated by that is like going to the beach and complaining because there is too much sand.

You must be late to the party centripetal. Before the las Vegas trga, Hugo had not played much with persimmon. Think he may even have had to borrow clubs for that event. Although he was more or less teaching full time he had played a limited event season on the challenge tour. He still beat John.

John is very confident he could beat anyone on tour, so long as the dice were loaded in his favour that is.

I have no issue with what is being taught here or the ideals. I do think it is disrespectful to attack everyone on tour and label them “crappy”. I think such sweeping generalizations do no one here any favours.

I also think there is a big difference between someone on the sunshine or shooters tour and someone on the pga tour.

When i say Hugo had not played much with wood, i meant in that recent time frame. it is a given he played it to the 90s