John,
… and what is causing his peripheral clubshaft to be bending forward during the time period that his lead wrist is moving from being cupped to becoming bowed?
It would be nice to see you do some critical thinking.
Jeff.
FWIW, I have always found David Leadbetter’s book on Ben Hogan’s Modern Fundamentals curious in the statements to the effect that Hogan’s swing had several “compensating movements” that prevent it from being something that Leadbetter would advocate/teach.
This always struck me as curious as multi-movements break down under pressure. Hogan’s action didn’t breakdown under pressure from what his contemporaries all-to-a-man said. (Don’t all of the other Shell episodes seem less impressive after watching Mr Hogan hit all 14 fairways and 18 greens?)
There’s the “All things Ben Hogan” channel on YouTube that has a “secret” video. Ben’s in a suit (looks like a Hogan Co, dinner) talking and demonstrating wrist cupping. It’s verbatim of what John is teaching, advocating, and patiently explaining.
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I’ve never been comfortable swinging with an intentionally cupped left wrist. Probably missing what made it work for Hogan.
If the hands are in the sternum vicinity at address they are already cupped. I just maintain my address position and do the orbit pull.
Jeff, you were getting close, but then you went back to vapor trails and not the motors that are creating them.
Forcing a “position” of a wrist or arm doesn’t work in the golf swing. These things you talk about need to be dynamically created through movement, force, pressures and acceleration.
Try to start thinking about the pressures that are creating "The Look’
But remember… if you “disagree”, then you are disagreeing with Hogan and other great strikers. Not sure what your model is…
John,
You wrote-: “Forcing a “position” of a wrist or arm doesn’t work in the golf swing. These things you talk about need to be dynamically created through movement, force, pressures and acceleration.”
I agree that arm/wrist positions must be created dynamically due to the forces that you describe.
Here is an example of how it would look in Hogan’s early followthrough.
Note that the lead wrist is bowed/flat and not extended. Note that the clubshaft has not bypassed the lead arm (from an angular rotational perspective). Note that the trail wrist is still bent.
Here is what it would look like in your golf swing action’s early followthrough.
Note that the lead wrist is bowed/flat and not extended. Note that the clubshaft has not bypassed the lead arm (from an angular rotational perspective). Note that the trail wrist is still bent.
Jeff.
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This is because of a quick pivot acceleration… it pins the left wrist flat… not because of an arm swing disconnect fake manipulation.
The term “fake manipulation” reflects your biased mindset and your mental incapacity to accept that there are alternative ways of efficiently performing a full golf swing action.
I don’t believe that there is anything that represents “fake manipulation” in the DH-hand release action of these skilled pro golfers.
Collin Morikawa
Cameron Champ
Jordan Spieth
Dustin Johnson
Will Zalatoris
Justin Thomas
Jeff.
Another post relating to John’s opinion that a DH-hand release action, in the absence of “holding shaft flex”, is really a disconnected fake arm manipulation technique.
Jeff.
By fake I was referring to your assertion that their left wrist is flat post impact… therefore they must be doing things correctly within a hitter context… which is simply a false comparison.
These pivots are not accelerating post impact… it’s all stall and disconnect. These are swinger’s releases that have nothing to do with hitting technique.
I never asserted that a FLW post-impact implies that a golfer is using a hitter’s technique. I am definitely asserting that a FLW post-impact where the lead wrist does not rapidly extend, and where the clubshaft does not bypass the lead arm "from an angular rotational perspective), is what is expected with a hitter’s technique and also with a swinger’s technique if they use a DH-hand release action through impact. I know of no scientific evidence that proves that one technique is better than the other technique - despite your personal bias that the hitter’s technique is better. I totally reject your opinion that a swinger’s technique where a golfer uses a CP-arm release action combined with a no-roll DH-hand release action is a “disconnected” technique.
Jeff.
Here is an example of a pro golfer - Joaquin Niemann - who is using a CP-arm release action combined with a no-roll subtype of DH-hand release action.
Jeff.
@jeff Mann
Drive holding is fake manipulation. Come on man
If I consciously rotate my left forearm through impact, I feel like my left wrist remains flatter for longer and I can hit some great shots. But this is still a manipulation relying on timing.
Looking back on my tour days, I had some great ball striking weeks. But I also had weeks where I was hanging on for dear life hitting top spinny draws or hang on blocks, relying on some kind of course management and short game to post a score.
If I can get the club face more open at P3, then accelerate using body rotation, my left wrist will dynamically flatten on its own with no manipulation = pure ball striking!
This is my current work in progress. Drills, drills, drills…and an impact bag.
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Jeff, under competition conditions, what’s the sensation and intention of your own best swings, performances and the ones that you felt related to your best scores?
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I’ll post this here because it also addresses the cupped left wrist intention and why that works and is desirable…
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The arm release is a disconnected release… meaning … the upper arms disconnect from the torso through the strike…
It’s a fact… nothing to debate here.
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John,
You wrote-: "The arm release is a disconnected release… meaning … the upper arms disconnect from the torso through the strike…
It’s a fact… nothing to debate here."
It’s an incontrovertible fact that you are wrong.
Here again is is Joaquin Niemann’s CP-arm release action combined with a no-roll DH-hand release action.
Image 3 is at impact (P7) and image 4 is at P7.4 where the clubhead is about 3 feet post-impact as it travels along the clubhead path.
During that P7 => P7.4 time period, the upper torso continues to rotate counterclockwise and the two arms move in perfect synchrony with the upper torso thereby directing the hands inside-left. The two arms and torso are very connected from a motional perspective and your claim that they are disconnected reflects your ignorance on how to perform a CP-arm release action combined with a no-roll DH-hand release action.
Jeff.
I think Jeff needs his eyes checked. And what he sees and what the players is actually doing is so skewed.
Time for your jello break my friend. Lights out soon for you as well
When is bingo night ?
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When i try this , open clubface i seem to still hit with a mostly open clubface. What am i not doing correctly to closeand squre theclub face for a forceful strike.