Do you mind me asking if you will be using a hybrid type club (modern clubs designed more for the flat ABS swing) when you re-enter professional competition? Does having to compete at a high level require you to use the modern stuff in order to get the distance you need? And if you use a graphite and titanium driver will you need to have it modified to accomodate a flatter swing? And how about irons?
I was talking to Lag if there is a need for ABS style clubs for those playing at a higher level.
Love to hear your thoughts and what you will be doing regarding your club selection.
Also, please let us know when are where you will be playing so we can root you on!!
littlealm,
I do much -most of my practice and regular playing at my home club with the old gear…
I hit my persimmons on the range regularly for feedback and to see where my swing is at. My course is a bit long (7200 yards) to go whack persimmons around all the time and play competitions on however.
Holes that I normally play as driver 8 iron become driver 4 iron with the persimmons…especially with the modern ball as a problem also because it doesn’t seem to compress and fly that well with the persimmons…
SO
Practice is done with swing and goals in mind…old gear…not a problem… I switch and change my irons around…just for fun and for feel and a different look
Tournaments are done with R7 driver with a 83g Diamana shaft…3 and 5 wood Taylor made 200 series (late 90’s?) with an older Graphite Design YS shaft in both… 3-PW irons will be Mizuno MP33 more than likely just as they have the most recent permissible grooves and newest shafts etc etc. SW and Lob are old Wilson JP models still in good shape groove wise.
I practice with irons that are 6 degrees flat…tournament irons are about 2 degrees flat as my yucky ‘manufactured’ swing still creeps in when I play so i use clubs accordingly…but I practice with the old, heavy flatter stuff for feedback and feel until I feel I have my swing grooved enough to keep dropping my tournament irons flatter to match.
I DON’T try swing any particular way when I go play an event…I just let it fly, hence using clubs not as flat for events just yet as my swing is still not 100% where i want it to be.
R7 driver I have the workable shaft where you can alter the setting of it so I have it sitting as flat as I visually can… to help promote what I want with my swing…but I need the extra distance that club provides so I use it in events because of the make up of the courses we tend to play.
I will try US Open qualifying in a few weeks, and will probably go play Wichita Open in August on The Nationwide Tour as I get in that as a past champion of the event. May try q-school this year?..prob not…depends on where I feel my game is at and where my 'brain positioning ’ is at as to if I want to go deal with the grind of travel again just yet… I am kind of enjoying just staying at home and working on my game right now.
I shall keep you posted…I will certainly go out and try play again full time…when I am ready for it…I want to get my swing and feel and game back to where I just let it fly again and play with no fear or hesitation, so when that time feels near I will take at it once again
Thanks for that post Bradley. Your summary of how you’re going about your practice and play may have helped confirm what I’ve been thinking of late with respect to my own game.
I’ve been using 5 flat gear for a good while now, but I am simply not scoring for jack squat on the course and haven’t been in quite a while. Lag has told me from day 1 to simply think target and shot shape when on the course, but I always tend to get entrenched in my module work while I play. I’ve always had a bit of a problem in that respect when working on my swing.
I had my highest tournament round last weekend in as long as I can remember (me and Tiger both I guess ) despite having one of the best pre-round range sessions I’ve had… also in as long as I can remember. I looked like I could shoot 65 based on how I hit it on half the holes, but I looked like I could shoot 95 based on the other half… maddening. While at the range a couple of days ago I decided to just swing without giving much thought to anything and suddenly my compression seemed to jump up a notch and things felt much more effortless. I could “sense” a deep transition move and a clubface that was moving through a wider range of motion from p3 into impact, but I wasn’t forcing it, nor was I forcing a sharp move left into p4 with lots of wristcock retained and a super fast pivot post impact. I’m sure the positions I was hitting weren’t as good as when I focus on the module work, but I’m also betting there was improvement over my swing of a year ago without any conscious thought.
I’m anxious to get on the course and play 18 with this approach (again… it’s simply the same approach Lag has preached to me from the beginning). It may have taken an abysmal weekend of tournament golf to drive the point home.
Twomasters,
Can you tell us how you work on your game. EX- How many hrs on modules , short game,playing, hitting balls etc etc.I noticed you also mentioned mindset any chance you can share that with us especially for guys who someday might try the same route .You quoted when you play that you like to let it fly without fear and hesitation can you go a little deeper with us on that does the fear ever go away?I will play when im ready how does one know that for sure? The reason i’m asking as i play in a smaller venue section pga events and some local qualifiers i want to make sure i prepare properly think correctly and would love that free thinking swing like you mentioned and hopefully follow those same footsteps that your headed for again.
Thank You
I do mainly module work for practice-50-100-150 of each module every 2-4 days…then I will go hit balls once a week to watch what the flight tells me and see what module I feel needs tightening up and needs more work. It is obvious that with the ball on the ground in front of us are ‘feel’ goes back to ball instead of body and our real swing can look quite different to our module swing. That’s why I monitor it and watch and feel my strike.
My tournament clubs have gone from 2 up lie angle to 2 down lie angle in the past 12 months…which shows something, and it is still a work in progress to work on it and get it naturally moving down to where I really want it to end up. So I practice with 6 degrees bent down…I would like to knock off at least one more lie angle and I think I would be close to where I can really play from going by my feel of my younger golfing career and where my clubs were set at then, before I got swapped and changed around by coaching and turned into a down the line upright poking type player.
Let if fly without fear or hesitationThat just means getting back to when i was young… I loaded dropped and unleashed…I worked hard and had ZERO swing thoughts…which is what the module work achieves in us all given enough time to filter in… I bet as you progress along you think less and less of performing each module during your actual real time swing. That’s the goal.
I have a job and teach and can’t just work on my game all day long like I used to be able to do…so the transformation of getting my young natural ABS based swing back is going to take some more time and i am willing to wait for that time and not jump the gun and try go out again when I am only satisfactorily happy with my feel and not 100% happy and trusting of it.
I know by strike and shot shaping when i do go play that I am still a work in progress, so that’s how I will know I am ready…when it is a day in and day out flush of the ball and control of the ball comes at will. I am not saying I couldn’t compete right now, as I feel I certainly could, but until the mental barrier of flush after flush and pure strike and motion gets ingrained there will always be the fear of the ‘computer based ugly’ swing creeping in here and there and chopping me down at the knees…so when I feel I don’t ever have to fear that occurrence I will be ready to give it another try.
Obviously tournament golf is a huge commitment. It is hours after hours of travel and hitting and planes and hotels and grinding and sitting around…it takes a special individual to be able to deal with it all because it is not as glamorous as it all sounds. BUT…very worth it if you can figure out YOUR WAY of dealing with the ups, downs, downtimes and hectic maze that it can become.
Confidence in your ability and trust and feel are what makes a golfer complete…There have been some godawful looking golf swings out there that have made a bunch of money…1) They believed in what THEY were doing and were able to fend of public and fellow pro opinions of their swing …and 2) because they believed in what they were doing they had no fear and could just go PLAY golf because they knew there swing and what it felt like and could continually deliver that swing to the ball…and 3) if something did go awry one day they had the knowledge of their own swing and feel and by osmosis could get inside themselves and figure it out real swiftly and be back to hitting it good the next day or the next nine holes and not killing their entire week in the process
Mine is the first R9 that came out with the adjustable shaft…2008?
Loft is 9.5… I always had to use lower lofted metal drivers (7 degree) because anything with loft would spin upwards so much for some reason and the more loft the more spin and the shorter the shot.
Now my swing is getting better this seems to do OK for me with 9 and half degree loft
I think I have mentioned this B4…how many clubs are made the same…same loft, length, shaft, head…but they all end different for some reason. I have had good drivers and then had a replacement made as a back up and it was a load of junk…and it was meant to be the same club
I think it is very hard for a regular joe to find a good driver for them these days because with so many different variables in shaft and flex point and loft and head settings, how could someone just go buy one and know they picked the absolute perfect one for them? So after a while they hate the club…sell it or trade it…and go buy another and are out of $$$
Even those launch machines…awful tool for club fitting in my opinion. Some of the best numbers they told me for drivers were the worst clubs I have owned. They would make a club up based on the launch conditions they saw onscreen with drivers I was testing and I would take that thing to the course and a friend would have it within a few hours…hard for the regular golfer to get the right club in their hands, unless they can loan a demo, take it to the course and if it does well out on the course, then actually buy that demo club…not a remake…the actual demo . And you know they won’t sell u a demo club because they want the full $499 for a new one that only has a 50/50 chance of playing exactly like the one you tested out on the course
It could be urban legend, but I’ve always heard that the “hottest” driver heads (those with the borderline COR numbers… remember they have to test every head) end up in the Tour Vans or as demo clubs. Retailers are trying to sell clubs, and nothing like a hot Demo unit to seal the deal. Many retailers are reluctant to sell their demo drivers, and I think it’s as much for this reason as any.
New member here on this great site. I couldn’t be more excited about making progress.
What advice do you have for those of us who are unlikely to switch away from modern clubs? which modern clubs fit in best with this swing (ie, which modern clubs can you make flat and how flat can you make them? Also what is the best way to add weight - i understand that you can get shafts that are heavier).
FWIW, i understand that many members here are passionate about the advantages of playing with vintage clubs (and I may practice with them) but I’d like to focus on what modern clubs fit best.
New member here on this great site. I couldn’t be more excited about making progress.
Welcome…there is wealth of information on this site which will give you the feel, the look and the understanding of a dynamic swing
What advice do you have for those of us who are unlikely to switch away from modern clubs? which modern clubs fit in best with this swing (ie, which modern clubs can you make flat and how flat can you make them? Also what is the best way to add weight - i understand that you can get shafts that are heavier).
As for irons…any forged blade would come recommended. Mizuno or Titleist MB or the AP line…Taylor Made blades (not burner or R5/7/9 models)…the look has to be important and the feedback capabilities important also. I much prefer thin soled clubs than the wide monstrosities that are being churned out today for crisper thinner divots and more workability. Forged muscle back style blades tend to help with regards to that the most, to identify any mishits that may happen. Good well struck shots you will find are even nicer feeling with these clubs also and maneuvering the ball I think is easier also.
I think there are a few adjustable drive/wood types…Taylor Made has adjustable neck…PING used to have different ferrules that made the head sit differently
FWIW, i understand that many members here are passionate about the advantages of playing with vintage clubs (and I may practice with them) but I’d like to focus on what modern clubs fit best.
Practice with the old stuff like u said…it will help you get even better when you break out the newer stuff
A couple of weeks ago I went to Chattanooga to see the Scratch Golf people.
They are a great bunch of guys and have been helpful to me over the past few years since I got to know them from playing in Oregon where their old office was.
I am about to receive a new set of irons and wedges from them for tournament play set of clubs. They should arrive in the next day or so.
The beauty of that company is they are very advanced at doing what you what in a club. Many different combinations and looks and ways to produce what you want.
I got to design the head shape to suit my eye- I chose one of the blade models and then they grind them to what I want… I had some of the toe ground off to make the head look smaller and squarer.
I told them the swingweights and lofts I wanted
They are putting tungsten powder down the heads to bring the weights up
D3 for irons 3-9…D5 for PW…D8 for SI and E0 for lob wedge
I can’t wait to hit them.
I went the Ryan Moore route and had the lofts put on the sole instead of a number…21* instead of 3 and 49* instead of PW and so on
They also stamp your name or initials on them for added flavour.
They should be cool. The first set of clubs I have had where I had all the input about the look, the weight, the appearance etc
I did have a set of them a few years ago and was actually the first person to ever use their irons in a tournament.
I shaped those with their club grinder in person but we took so much off them the weight got a bit light and they felt a little off even though they looked great to my eye.
These will be better with the added weight in the hosel and the same great look.
Those grooves on my old Scratch set are illegal to use now for pro events, so hence the new set coming.
They did make a hybrid but I think they have given up on that.
They will never get into the metalwood market as far as I know
The owner-Ari- did resurrect Joe Powell persimmon woods recently .
I didn’t get a look at them as we focused on the irons, but maybe down the road here I can get one of those made up.
Their main focus is wedges…and the irons http://www.scratchgolf.com
Two,
Glad to see that you competed in Australia a couple questions. First i think you mentioned that a tour rep put in a 100 gram shaft in your driver how did that work for you what kind was it? flex? and what head model? Also any changes in irons during the competition? model? etc etc.Whats the plan for next couple months or are you coming back to S.C.
It was a blue project X 100 gram xtra stiff and a tip heavy stiff shaft- in a 9.5 Taylor Made tri driver- it went well. The weight really made me wait as late as I could to go ripping thru impact. I really like it even though everyone would think I was nuts to use such a heavy shaft…but clubhead speed is all relevant isn’t it…do it early on in the piece and you need light clubs to try flick some speed back into the club. Gravity drop and then speed up…no problem…just like chopping wood with an axe…you wait and wait and power up as you approach the wood, not at the top of your lift…same for the golf swing (as you are well aware of)
Irons were the same Scratch irons that I talked about…they were great…the only time I lost my game with the irons was the Saturday of the last event…it was windy…I felt like I had to keep the ball down and I fell into my old coached habit of leaning into the ball…this raised my hands at impact and got me across the line and steep into the ball (missing my 4.30) and i hit mishits and scoops that killed me (especially because i couldn’t recover well because my putting was struggling)
I am back in SC…in the cold…no plans right now except for heading out to Vegas in a few weeks to try the persimmons out in the TRGA Championship with Lag and hopefully catch up with a few ABS’ers there too
I had this discussion ages ago with Styles about who was the first player to use Vokey wedges on tour etc…Voke summarizes here. It seems like Andy Bean beat me to using them on tour but I was the first Vokey wedge winner…Australian Masters 1998 (not the Open as Voke says)
Haven’t read all the interview but Voke is pretty switched on and probably has some good stuff in there…it’s an in depth interview
I would suggest that the greats are the ones that played golf under less than perfect conditions. Trevino grew up playing public golf off less than perfect lies. I suspect Seve and Jose Maria also grew up on less than perfect conditions.
And neither do frying pan drivers.
The R90s and R20… absolutely great clubs for sand. I don’t think light weight wedges have any place in the sand unless you are really willing to spend a lot of time practicing them.
I would add that this truth must also be applied to the other end of the spectrum with the huge gap between long irons and the super long lightweight frying pans.
There are good arguments for keeping a fluid feel right through the set from driver to wedge and even putter as Loren Roberts would suggest.
’ is at as to if I want to go deal with the grind of travel again just yet… I am kind of enjoying just staying at home and working on my game right now.
) despite having one of the best pre-round range sessions I’ve had… also in as long as I can remember. I looked like I could shoot 65 based on how I hit it on half the holes, but I looked like I could shoot 95 based on the other half… maddening. While at the range a couple of days ago I decided to just swing without giving much thought to anything and suddenly my compression seemed to jump up a notch and things felt much more effortless. I could “sense” a deep transition move and a clubface that was moving through a wider range of motion from p3 into impact, but I wasn’t forcing it, nor was I forcing a sharp move left into p4 with lots of wristcock retained and a super fast pivot post impact. I’m sure the positions I was hitting weren’t as good as when I focus on the module work, but I’m also betting there was improvement over my swing of a year ago without any conscious thought.
