Classic Rounds with Classic Gear on Classic Tracks

Lag,
You have a great forum here! I was just introduced to it today. Its great to know that there are so many traditionalists out there like myself, that appreciate playing real “woods”. The way the game was intended to be played. I have a decent size collection of persimmons, mostly old Mac Eye O Matics from the 1950s and a beautiful M85W (all original, but been refinished once) driver that I really enjoy playing. I’m still looking for the ultimate gamer that has a modern DG shaft. Like Arnie said , its intimidating when you first go back and play a 170 to 180 cc persimmon, but your eye easily likes that size and adjusts fairly easily. I make better swings with a Steel shafted persimmon I believe and the flight and feel you get when you hit it on the screws is what golf is all about for me. I’d like to eventually put together an “80s” bag, perhaps a set of Hogan PCs like I played with back then. I haven’t had the chance to play a full 18 with a persimmon (usually bring it for 9 at the muni) on a championship style course, but will next year. It’ll be fun.

Here is me in March of 09 hitting my M85W.
youtube.com/user/F7269

Hey Freddie great to see you over here! Freddie has a great collection of persimmons and is very knowledgable on all things related to Mac persimmon in particular and has been more than helpful in helping me build up my own collection. Along with Lag and Two he is also minaturised in doll form in our house so my wife can stick pins in him when the next shipment arrives at the front door :laughing:

Cheers, Arnie

Welcome…

Glad to have another persimmon lover here. There are a few of them floating around this site. Also players using blades and working on some more traditional swing techniques.

It’s nice to know there are others who look down at a frying pan and think it should stay in the kitchen.

I never bought into the silly trend to out date the classic courses… or try to pretend I am better than I am. I have never played a round of golf with a titanium driver… still hitting persimmon… Even the early Taylor Made Tour Burners looked cold and unattractive to me. A lot of the guys on tour used those because they could hit them off the fairway on par 5’s, back when par 5’s were not driver 5 iron holes. I just always carried a MacGregor MT 2 wood and did fine with that.

We have to play at my place, Worplesdon. It’s real good fun with the old gear…

2010 meet up required in the UK methinks

Saturday saw the latest meet up for the UK Persimmon Challenge, kindly hosted by Welshdentist at Worplesdon (England), a great old school track. The match took the form of a scratch 4 ball better ball with WD and myself taking on two non ABS students who are lovers of the old stuff. The gear line ups were as follows:

Arnie: Titleist “John Erickson Custom” Driver, MacGregor MT irons, Wilson TPA VIII putter
WelshDentist: Joe Powell Driver (+ everyone elses at least once!), Spalding Bird on the Ball irons, Bullseye putter
Christian M: MacGregor Tourney Jack Nicklaus driver, Nicklaus 67 by MacGregor irons, George Low putter
Chris M: Cleveland Classic 10th Anniversary woods, Mizuno TP-9 irons, original Ping Anser putter

The modern ball was allowed on this ocassion and we played from the white “competition” tees. Early exchanges were fairly scrappy but it soon settled down with some nice golf being played all round but particularly by our host WD who seemd intent on waring a hole in the sweetspot of his 2 iron with 4 consecutive snorters baring down on the flag! The weaker half of the ABS partnership popped his head abover the parapit only ocassionally most notably hitting the pin with a 3 iron for a tap in birdie and coaxing a 4 iron close enought to the hole for a win on one of Worplesdons gorgeous set of par 3’s. Handshakes were finally exchanged on the 17th with the ABS duo squeezing through 2 up. A great day all round and thanks to Welsh Dentist for his hospitality and excellent play.

Cheers, Arnie

I was possibly the best day of weather we have had this year :sunglasses:

I quickly found out that my module work has made me hook the heck out of my regular shafted Joe Powell ( a test for flattening if I can find a taker?) hence my borrowing all the sexy Macgregors on offer. AA’s Lag modified Titleist felt fantastic and looked so good behind the ball.

The course was in pretty good nick and it was interesting to see other guys hitting wood as I had nothing to compare to before.

Obviously it was no surprise the ABS guys were the ones hitting the stick out (AA twice!!!) and I think we would have done better had I not struggled with the Bullseye so much… :wink:

It was great fun playing proper gear and hope to repeat again soon.

Great stuff guys,

What a great venue for an ABS meet and well done both of you in arctic February conditions. Striking a classic blade or a persimmon well in sub 4 degrees should be awarded a black belt henceforth…

Lets see if we can get Lag and Two over for a hit!

Mark

Beautiful to read guys. Next time I’m in the UK I’ll make sure to try some of the old tracks.

I’ll be playing Lincoln Park here again soon…
thought this thread might need a bump…

anyone playing vintage courses with vintage gear?

Im heading down to Royal Adelaide next month Lag. Thats about as classic as it gets down under. My levelumes should be here in time. Already have the Macs, and they are doing nicely thanks.

I will post some pics

Steve

the track i play most of my golf at is the oldest 18 hole course in texas. all the old guys played there. ouimet won an
amatuer event there in 1922 (it used to be houston country club until they moved in the 50’s). built in 1908 which in texas was
along time ago. galveston was the largest city in the state back in those days.

it plays about 6300 from the tips, and has remained pretty much intact with the exception of a few greens… it has lost a ton of trees
the past 10 years due to old age and recent droughts but still has 8 or 9 outstanding holes. it is usually not in great shape
but it has it’s moments. for a long time held claim to longest par 3 in texas, 240 yards, dead straight to a turtle back.

i’ve been playing it with old gear lately and it makes a few holes brutal, like the 425 yard 11th- all uphill to a tricked out green
tiny green, the type they stopped designing decades ago. a couple of greens are so small there is only one pin position…middle.

a couple of years ago i took a few guys (at their request) out there who belong to a fancy club, none of them shot within 8-9 strokes of their handicaps. they
spent the post round complaining about the thin lies and overall lack of grass. i just laughed, drank their beer and counted money. they don’t ask
me to take them out there anymore…

best of all, the guys in the proshop let my 7 and 4 year old “unofficially” play for free, and they extend that courtesy to alot of youngsters. now that is old school of the finest kind.

every city has an old track like this one, and those are the ones i love…wellshire in denver, cedarcrest in dallas, lions in austin, glen eagles in lemont, il,
city park in NOLA, fort walton beach country club…

Took my perimmons and Powerbilt Levelume blades to Royal Adelaide for a low thrills am event this weekend. 36 hole stroke, and one of the purist courses in our land, was a treat I was looking forward to.
I was to leave Thursday night, and guess what, my new (lag) clubs arrived along with a " chip roller" about 30 mins before i was to leave. I bit the bullet and took em with me.
I got a practice round in on Friday, and the 1st hole is a gentle dog leg left, about 350m long. I push a drive about 2 yards right, walked to my ball, and could see 3 dimples, lol. Wow i loved it. I hit this 50 yr old wedge onto the middle of the green, and it went so far over the back i needed a yardage.

The course was set up to test us all, such a thrill, to play it as intended, no tricks, hit it straight, or go home and learn to. Very simple message.

I played nice, shot a pair of 73’s and finished 6th. Considering I was using a set of irons id never swung, and a putter , sorry, Chip Roller for the first time, i was chuffed. Both rounds my partners smacked it by my “funny” driver, but they never broke 80 either day.

It was so much fun to play that course with that gear.

Steve

Great stuff…

You’ll love them even more after you really learn them over 4 to 6 months of playing and feeling them.
I love not having to putt anymore. It’s great being able to get hot once in a while with zero practice using the “roller”. If I have the pace down putts go in. No longer having to worry about “line” is really wonderful.

Northwood GC, Monte Rio CA. 9-hole Alister MacKenzie design.
So sweet to hear the ‘CRACK’ of persimmon echoing through the redwoods!!
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THE SEA RANCH GOLF LINKS, CALIFORNIA

Today was my first round playing blades and persimmons. I chose one of my favorite courses for my inaugural round.
And I took some photos, so I hope you enjoy them.

The Course

Par 72 (36-36)
Tips: 6649 yards, 72.5/130
Blue: 6233 yards, 71.0/125

No 1 Sea Ranch Par 5_DSC0529 small.jpg
The Sea Ranch Golf Links is located along the Pacific Ocean on California Route 1 about 100 miles north of the San Francisco Bay Area. Its remote location (no major highways are anywhere near this location) allows for quite remarkably uncrowded conditions. For example, I was a walk-on today at about 11:00, and I played by myself with no waiting – today was a Saturday, and the weather was sunny and in the low 60’s.

It is a very tight course that asks some very good questions of the player. It is not a tricked-up course, but instead is designed based on some of the classic tracks in the British Isles. Even though the course is located along the ocean, it is not an oceanside course like a Pebble. It is more of a parkland style layout, with Number 8, a par 3, the only hole where you get to see some breaking surf.

No 7 Sea Ranch Par 4_DSC0542 small.jpg
Robert Muir Graves designed the course. He died a little over 10 years ago and is one of the more well-known California golf course architects – his courses are all over California. He became known in the 1960s when he redesigned Lake Merced CC in San Francisco. Later, Graves settled in Bend, Oregon but maintained a second home in The Sea Ranch, a small coastal community of minimalist houses that are designed to blend into one of the most beautiful spots on this planet. It is a famous enclave among the world’s architects. And Graves kept his design of the local course to mimic the philosophy, as The Sea Ranch Golf Links is one of the early examples of natural, minimalist golf architecture. The front nine opened in 1973, and the back nine was completed several years later.

No 9 Sea Ranch Par 4_DSC0540 small.jpg
One of the features of the course is that it is not kept ‘pristine’ as defined by today’s standards. For example, during dry seasons, the course is brown and hard. Even today, after a good wet stretch of a few weeks, there are lush portions of fairways as well as thin and hard ones. And the greens are overall nice but with some rough spots (and occasional deer tracks). Being isolated, this area has expensive water, so to maintain economic viability with low playing traffic, the course is managed in a pretty bare-bones way with some volunteers pitching in. For me, this just adds to the course’s specialness.

No 10 Sea Ranch Par 4_DSC0532 small.jpg
The proshop is small and simple, with very little equipment, clothing, and food/drink, and the local pro (I’m assuming he is one) seems idle a lot of the time. Occasionally, one of the local residents might be tending the cash register instead. It’s not imposing to the environs, just like the community of The Sea Ranch.

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As you might imagine, the ocean breeze plays its part in every round I’ve played here. A prevailing northwesterly wind results in 9 holes playing into the wind, 6 holes having a nice tailwind, and 3 holes with a cross breeze. I’ve played about 6 rounds here, and only one had a reverse southerly wind. That completely changed the course. But today was the normal direction, and not more than an occasional gust of perhaps 15 mph.

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The only downside of this track – and perhaps I’m in the minority – is that there are too many houses. In all, 10 holes have a noticeable number of homes within reach at some point of the fairway, leaving only 8 holes completely or relatively dwelling-free. But the homes are the reserved style of The Sea Ranch and don’t make you feel you are at a resort.

And by the way, this is not a resort, but instead is a collection of a few hundred houses, many of which are rented as vacation homes. On the occasion that I have played with somebody else here, they are usually a resident or a visitor who is renting a home for a long weekend or a couple of weeks. Only once have I played with someone who lives locally outside of The Sea Ranch (a gentleman who lived in the nearby coastal town of Gualala).

People come here not only from the nearby Bay Area but also from all parts of the world to rent a house for a few days to a few weeks. There is great hiking and a stunningly beautiful coastline. Because of its remote location, golf is usually an overnight affair even if you are from Northern California. But the whole experience is really worth it.

No 14 Sea Ranch Par 5_DSC0533 small.jpg
The Round

Front Nine: +12 (48) 1/7 Fairways 0/9 Greens 20 putts
Back Nine: +2 (38) 5/7 Fairways 4/9 Greens 15 putts

To say the least, it took me a while to get used to the new blades and persimmons. Heavy, flat, and stiff is a brand new experience for me. So what were the problems and challenges?

I hit the long irons fairly straight, when I hit them square.
I hit the medium irons a tiny bit right, when I hit them square.
And I hit the short irons 15 degrees or more right, when I hit them square.

And the ball hit with the woods did exactly what I told it to do: a stalled pivot caused a draw/hook, and a crappy swing caused a crappy swing (fat, thin, etc.).

I knew all of that was coming based on my little bit of range work with the new sticks.
But the biggest surprise was the effect of the clubs on my short game.
Because of the weight, the ball FLEW off the clubface compared with my old, light, cavity-back Ping Eye-2 irons. I was long on every pitch/chip, some of which ran right through the green.

But I didn’t dispair, BECAUSE THE BALL FELT WONDERFUL ON EVERY PITCH/CHIP. I just wasn’t used to the distance, and recalibrating my feel was an immense challenge.

No 17 Sea Ranch Par 3_DSC0539 small.jpg
There was a glimmer of hope on the last 3 holes of the first nine, so I didn’t get too down.
And after starting the back with par, bar, birdie, the old juices flowed again.
I started hitting the ball square, I was finding the fairways, and my short game settled down.
And making a few putts never hurts.

The final hole featured my best shot ever with a blade. After a short drive with a 4-wood, I flushed a 2-iron: 205 carry, straight with a piercing ball flight, and it rolled through the green to the back rough. An up-and-down for a par was the proper way to reward that 2-iron that I might just remember for a while.

Since I’m only a Mod 1 student, I’m probably not swinging THAT much different than when I found ABS. But I am trying to pack in the arms/elbows more. And on the back nine, I discovered that when I made a really good powerful swing with a good pivot, the ball tended to end up in a good spot. Anything less or different, the results were quite different.

But on this very tight course, there were no lost balls or other types of penalty strokes.

This was a great experience to usher in a new chapter of my golf game. I look forward to a lot more.

I’m all in.

Vol - great writeup! I asked my wife to marry me at St. Orres which is the set of cabins + restaurant with the Russian style dome in Gualala. We go back every year and I get to play Sea Ranch. I love that course. Your description did it justice. Graves is honored as a hero there. Playing that course for the first time was one of the events that triggered my modest interest in golf course architecture and I was surprised to find that the muni course I grew up playing on was also a Graves design. He’s got a few duds but a lot of great tracks in California including La Purisima near Lompoc which is excellent. He also did Boundary Oaks, Franklin Canyon, Blue Rock Springs, San Geronimo, etc. in the Bay Area.

Good to hear from you, Lip.

I know St. Orres well. Have enjoyed food and drink there a couple of times. Glad to know it’s a special place in your life.
Graves – must be why I enjoy Boundary Oak, Franklin Canyon, and Blue Rock Springs (East) so much.

On Friday of last week I had the pleasure of playing royal Melbourne (west). Given that this was my second time playing there in the past 6months, I was able to enjoy and observe it’s beauty more than I did back in October.

Although I can’t profess that my bag was truly classic, with frying pan and pro v1 in hand. However this was the first time that my m85’s were in my bag as my main gamers and not it’s usual spot of novelty clubs.

The weather was perfect, a sunny 27*, with no breeze. The course was at its firm best. approaches were cut almost green like, bunkers almost devoid of sand and greens had a speed and firmness that rewarded a good shot but didn’t murder you with anything less so. Unlike the marble tops I encountered when I played there just before the oz masters.

A day day out on such a marvel of the golfing world is not about ones score, but for those who care, I was 1 down. Not bad for my first serious bash with my 60yo blades.

Oh…before I forget, who needs a $150 vokey 62* wedge when my M85 sw may have have been there for my best sand play performance of my life.

Ok, now for those who have never seem the course, here are some picks.

The approach to the 460m par 5 2nd. An uphill drive with a sweeping right dog leg to a severe back right to front left green. I had an eagle putt. I carded a 5.

The very strategic 324m short par 4 3rd. This has a green which slopes from front left to back right. Best approached from the right, with a grounded approach. I played a 2i to the right side then tried to run a 7i onto the left side of the green, came up short and then played a sw from the rough which landed on the fringe and rolled out to the back corner. Finished with a 5

From the tee

The approach from the left side

View from behind the green

The famous 156m par 3 5th. Yet again a daunting back to front green which punishes anything short of the pin with a likely chip back up into the green. Luckily today we had a pin in the back corner. Thanks to my lack of mod 3 work I pulled my tee played a delicate sw to the top edge of the left bunker and released it to 3m. 2 putted for a 4

And to our last hole of the day the all world 392m 6th. A sweeping dogleg right with an up hill approach to a back left to front right green. What a beautiful hole. I played a good drive to the safe zone on the left, leaving me about 165m uphill. I played a 4i into the right trap sw to 2m tapped in for par.

Sorry about the darkness of these shots, they were taken late in the day and into the sun

View from the ideal line for your second shot

View for my 2nd shot

The approach to a beautiful green

That was my day on the hallowed turf of royal Melbourne (west)