Can we discuss graphite shafts and "toe droop"?

This question is mostly for Lag, but what are your thoughts on toe droop with modern “lightweight” golf shafts?

Mostly Driver/3W…but also iron shafts. Most metal shafts have gotten so light that I feel even my irons “droop”. I also see it on video.

It forces you to stand up through the strike…causing the occasional really skunky ball. Again, opposing forces can really tweak a shaft…more so than a swingers protocol. If I stay down through the strike and hold lag long enough I tend to get straight right balls, but really well struck. Usually at least pin high…so not a mishit.

Just curious if anyone has given this significant thought…or even cares too? Just fyi, on video–my ABS spec murfields that Lag built have Toe droop as well. Seems to be universal…makes me wonder how stiff Hogans shafts must have been. Nobody stays in the strike longer than he did.

1 step below rebar…ahhahahahahahaha

Realize you’re asking Lag, so he can give his thoughts. My 2 cents though:

Shaft droop is normal since the CG of the head isn’t aligned with the shaft. Ways to reduce it:

  • Stiffer shafts
  • CG of club head closer to being in line with the shaft
  • Lighter club heads (not that I’m recommending, but it would reduce droop).
1 Like

Must be why Hogan held that right hand like a pistol pointing at the ground… :saluting_face:

I had thought that Hogan did that for the same reason we don’t want the club head end to remain up, that is not fall by gravity alone to the ground, while doing module 5.

Hey D2J - you still using that prototype driver?

I play very stiff steel shafts… especially in my driver… so toe droop isn’t going to be much of a factor at all.

Basically I put a tipped 1 iron shaft in my driver… tip it about 5 or 6 inches… then add an extender on the grip end… so it’s under the grip. Super stiff… that way it has the same shaft flexation as all my irons. This is the proper way to set up a set in my opinion because this way… I don’t have to “memorize” each shaft in my bag and what they do. I used to do that, but I don’t have time to practice that much and memorize each shaft’s inconsistency.

I think I have a youtube video about this on my channel so take a look.

As far as lightweight shafts… I don’t find them of value. I get less feel from them… feel is critical if I am going to get reliable feedback so I can keep a repeating golf swing.

In a hitters motion, I am accelerating the whole club into the ball… including the shaft as well. I like to feel like I am hitting the ball with the clubhead, the clubshaft, and even my body. Firm grip, firm arms, firm body… hitting from the core happens when you keep a loaded shaft.
This is all very inline with what would be taught in the Martial Arts. Power is coming from the core… the Chi center or Dantien.


Not so much Les. I use it to drill and to train, but honestly…I’d say it’s probably a on par with your persimmons (mostly graphite shaft issues imho).

Anywho, we’ve been discussing going back down the rabbit hole again, but it is unlikely. I love having control off the tee, but I enjoy scoring even more these days. Tough to shoot the numbers I have to, with only 265 off the tee max. Modern greens make flat ball flights tough to manage when pins get tucked behind bunkers on longer par 4s. Sucks too knowing I would be hitting a wedge otherwise…kind of a mental battle if I’m being totally honest.

What we basically learned is that the modern “bouncy” poly balls don’t exactly love mass. The ball won’t spin much side to side, but it does balloon. It’s odd because my speed, path, strike and face angle numbers would say I should be creaming it. Unfortunately, it just ends up in the 4k rpm spin range with very low smash factor numbers. My theory…acceleration PAST the ball with additional mass “overcompresses” (don’t have a word for it yet) the modern “bouncy” ball. It’s all conceptual and intuitive…so don’t ask how I got to that notion. LOL

Much like a steep swing with a balata produces the dreaded climber…I believe a leveraged strike with a modern ball and heavy club does the same. Mostly from years of experiencing it. Hope that answers the question.

Great stuff Lag. So…basically rebar. Back to lab we go… :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Why not test it out for yourself. There is something called vertical line test where you use dry erase marker to check lie. For my driver 52* lie gets the line perpendicular to the grooves on the face. 43 1/4" d6. Just under 14oz.