But I guess I don’t see the disc as the problem in itself, or that the disc itself actually even has a problem. If it was ruptured I’d say yes, but I feel like the structure around the spine is pulling the vertebrae out of line which is bulging the disc out. Maybe I’m wrong, but I reckon if I can get back into position overall, sort out my dis-ease, then it will take the dysfunctional pressure of the vertebrae that are bulging out the disc allowing it to live happily ever after…
No intention to get too tecchnical; neither is this my field.
I have full faith that a bulging disc can be removed without surgery Bom–bad postural habits caused it, good habits can remove it. I had trouble even sitting again after a heavy year of full-time renovating, now I’m totally agile again. It took a tonne of pilates and yoga, but fortunately I fell for the teacher and married her so it was easy. We must like similar types 
Like the ABS drills, these new ways of carrying the body had to become habit so they wouldn’t be undone in normal living. It’s a hard slog when you’re deskbound for your job and I constantly try to ‘de-desk’ parts of my job.
The neck’s a big problem and it’s amazing how much tension is stored there when you focus on it. I blame the Scout movement 
--their motto was ‘be prepared’. Being prepared makes one look towards the future and to stress out unnecessarily about things that never eventuate. We look up when we thinking about the future, our body tenses when we stress out. Not a good combination. Just the fact that massage is so relaxing shows us how tense we normally are. Being in the present is of course the focus of Yoga which positions the neck in a balanced position, equalizing pressures in the front and back of the neck. This can be estimated by having four finger widths between where your collar bones meet and your chin.
Coincidentally I find this neck position perfect for the golf swing as well, allowing the shoulders room to move under without physical obstruction or tension restriction, but the ball still to be viewed non-peripherally and without eye strain that the common ‘looking down the face’ advice used to give me. Such a simple thing as neck position, yet I’m still battling to make a habit when in competition golf mode where you revert to what you know puts clubface on ball.
Right on, Steb… totally agree. I’ve got no doubt that we can observe and take care of our bodies as need be. I have a strong sense that they want to be in good shape so are on our side if we’re willing to put in the effort. My body always responds to being cared for, whether it be exercise or good diet… this neck issue is the only thing that hasn’t reponded, though I have a feeling that’s my fault and not my body’s… we’ll see… I’m working on it…
We must… and it’s a good type too… though it sounds like you’ve got a lot more sense than me 
… oh well, we live and learn, right?
Cheers…
In my interview with Sam Randolph, we discussed some of his issues, with his back, and how he pretty much had to change to a more level rotation through the shot to take stress off his lower back. I haven’t seen his swing since he was playing great in the 80’s but we are going to spend a couple days together down in the desert next month which I am looking forward to.
A question now regarding martial arts…
Is there a preference for the path of the strike? Any specific protocols for horizontal vs vertical striking?
In golf we are basically or should be playing the game from a 45 degree angle… so I suspect some of both would apply.
Thoughts from our experts here?
The preference of path is foremost about suitability of the strike to the given situation. There is no doubt that vertical based strikes are more devastating, but devastation isn’t always the goal.
The reason vertical based strikes are more devastating is because the striking area is somewhat braced against movement. An axe kick crushes the downed opponent against the ground, an downward elbow strike against the buckled over body, an uppercut seeing the chin braced by nearly the full weight of the body and the eye-watering 45 degree kansetsu geri, a stomping downward kick into the knee joint.
Downward strikes also allow your own personal mass to sink in with strike, but unlike impact in golf there is decent time for energy transfer.
Steb wrote…
YIKES! It hurts to even read that post!! But it is enlightening.
Sam Snead said, on the Golf Channel, he would think to himself as he addressed the ball when distance was needed …“now this won’t hurt a bit”…
He must have meant he saved the kill/hit until the correct moment.
If a person jumped from height, let’s say 10 feet, an elbow strike to the opponent would be much more devastating than performing the same technique from the ground.
I believe that is why using knee flex transitioning from the backswing to the downswing, as taught by Lag, can provide greater power in the golf swing.
Somewhat on different subject Mr. Hogan talked about the downswing starting with the hips. Can Martial Arts add an element of understanding to help us use the hips in a way to add more power and precision to our swing?
While I have talked about opposing forces while performing a strike in Karate, my focus was more on opposing force with the opposite arm and hand (right hand thrusting forward while the opposing hand thrusts the opposite direction). But without the hips involved there is no power to speak of. Therefore the hips are the power accumulator.
What I hadn’t thought about, as it pertains to the golf swing, in Karate, the hips actually thrust the opposite direction from the hand thrusting forward. In other words, while the left arm (if punching with the right hand) is thrusting back the opposite direction so are the hips. Interesting is the fact when the forearm rotates at the last moment, turning the fist over during the punch, the hips thrust or snap powerfully the opposite direction in sync at the same time.
When I get this feel into the bag with Mod 2, I feel a real powerful shaft flex. I feel like the hips are snapping back as the forearms and hands fire into the bag in sequence. The connecting factor seems to be, without post impact pivot thrust —Mod 3— a person runs into danger of a flip if the pivot stalls.
Very enlightening post, Steb. It goes a long way to explaining why it’s so difficult for beginners/average players to get the club approaching impact on the proper inclined angle- it just doesn’t feel as powerful. There’s a period/moment in a good golfswing that has to feel kind of ‘weak’, and it’s during the transition down into the ‘slot’, it’s tied to dthiele’s question as I understand it. If you start down pressuring the club with impact zone directed pressure, it’s basically impossible to sustain that, not that that would be the way you’d want to do it anyway.
Copied from “The Moe Thread” by Greg Lavern
This is Tiger from !996 and from 2008. Back then he was harnessing magic and I think his posture/stance had a fair bit to do with it. As time went on and he trained more as a ‘golfer’, he lost that magic. He was very much rooted in his old stance, much like Two talked about with him and Norman. And when you’re working with those types of clubhead speeds, it’s vital to have it counterbalanced in motion.
Conversely, the ‘wrong’ version of the Horse Stance is remarkably similar to Tiger’s ‘improved’ posture. Even the head angle, which in it’s own way, is reaching back to find balance and not fall over. Also the arm angles coming out of the body have to be more vertical and less angled, the further out on his toes he is. These lines may look insignificant to some, but they’re drastic really. I’m not into swing/plane lines, but balance lines are something completely different and are not to be messed with imo.
Love the horse stance!
Makes me feel like I am back in Tai Chi class again.
Not sure what a whore’s dance is, but ride 'em cowboy works. 
Seriously. My teacher had a touch of the bastard in him(for my own good) and he would make me stay in it until he knew I couldn’t take it anymore, then he’d add another 30 seconds or so- some seconds are longer than others.
Genius, RR. Hilarious!
Heard this the other day from a black belt which got me thinkin’. He said in addition to forearm rotation adding power, etc, the arm actually becomes longer in the process of doing so. He gave a live example: which was to throw a full straight punch at my nose that fell just short of the mark. He first measured the distance to the very tip of my nose using the orientation seen in the right half of the picture. Once measured, he threw the punch while rotating the forearm like shown in the left half of the picture… and darn if the punch didn’t fall just short of the mark due to forearm rotation.
So when the forearms rotate going back, or even more during transition, it seems like the arm length becomes shorter- notwithstanding the bent R arm- because the radial and ulna bones are rotated. And through the zone reversing that forearm rotation not only adds power, but restores length to the process while keeping a bent right arm…thus having a feeling of wanting 3 right hands. So you get the best of both worlds: a lengthening R arm with a shortening R arm radius overall. Maybe the ultimate opposing force?
What do you ABS ninjas think about this as it relates to 3 right hands.
Range Rat Rote
Yes, the punch landed short. But no, it wasn’t from forearm rotation. Well, maybe for Inspector Gadget. For the rest of us mere humans, our radius and ulna are fixed in length.
What really happened was buddy retracted his scapula a bit.
Try this: Stand in front of a mirror, without a tee-shirt. Put your arms straight out, like you were doing a pushup off the mirror, then make a fist in both hands. Should look like you are holding onto a water ski tow bar, more or less at chin height.
Now, drop your right arm, and trying (more or less, rigour isn’t vital here) to keep it rigid, rotate it down past your waist, as close to straight back behind you as you can get, then way up over your head, and back to your starting spot.
Notice it appears about 5/8th shorter than your left arm?
Now, repeat the swing. This time it’s back to the original length.
Rest assured your radius, ulna and humerus did not change length (at least at human achievable swing speeds). But the muscle that connects your scapula to your spine sure did tighten up when you reached behind, and it stayed tight.
First discovered this in grade school, maybe grade four. I remember some sort of song that went with it, somethin’ about a magpie. And spitwads. And a punch line that included the words “come back Betty…”
As for the feeling of three right hands, well, yeah, now I get it.
I’m speculatin’ a bit here, but I’ve got a fiver that says if we were to take super high speed pix of lag (or any other golfer in his strata who espouse a hitting protocol), we would find the club face open way, way longer than the rest of us .
When I pure a shot now, the feel is that I’ve got the club face open and skyward facing at a point well below my knees. Again, this is feel vs. real, and the dynamic forces involved kinda preclude that actually happening.
But for upper tier golfers, I suspect they can and do keep it open that late.
But I know that if I get the feel of RIDICULOUSLY open club face, than absolutely crank the screwdriver with 60 degrees worth of lefty loosey into impact with my right hand, I get a repeatable drive that fades in a predictable way. Shoot it down the left edge of the fairway, and watch it bleed back to the middle. Aim a five iron into the left greenside bunker, watch the shot bleed back, catch the slope on landing and kick to the green.
If I had three right hands, I could rotate and push through that much harder.
One last thing about karate and golf: I learned technique on a makiwara (not sure that is acceptable protocol anymore, cause it can really mess up your hands). Talk about instant and unambiguous feedback.
To transfer my “feel” of where I concentrate my chi when I have a golf club in my hands, I imagine the makiwara about six inches closer.
Anyway, hope that wasn’t too long winded.
But no, forearm rotation, for all the wonderful things it does for your golf game, doesn’t lengthen /shorten your arm. Other wise you would have a bellows-like fold around your elbow (just like a CV joint cover in a FWD car) to keep you from tearing your skin each time you reached out to grab something.
Cheers,
hawg1
Thanks Hawg1. I’ll have to check with him when I see him next. May be slight of hand to an unknowing rat.
My post wasn’t as clear as it could have been. I didn’t mean to suggest that the bones are not permanent and fixed in length…
…but I was thinking, and I have no idea about this, what if those bones have some play in the sockets ( if that’s what they are called ) that allow for rotation. Here’s a picture. If in the process of rotation the travel around the upper arm bone is circular, then the travel distance would be different between the two points in relation to the term of travel…point 1 being closer to the ground, and point 2 representing pronation going back.
Kinda of like wringing out a wet towel…the length doesn’t become shorter until you start wringing it out.
Just curious for my own knowledge…thoughts?
I did martial arts for several years as growing up. My last style i learned was Hung Gar and Tai chi. When i got to college, i discontinued training to concentrate on my studies.
One of the most hardest things for people to endure was the horse stance, the lower the better. Try standing in one for 5 minutes, better yet just even 1 minute in a low horse stance without lifting up. One who is not use to it, will feel a burn almost instantly.
I like to think and compare the two styles of the golf swing to martial arts. Hitters is like the Southern Chinese martial arts such as Hung Gar. This style feature a low stable stance and short powerful movements that combine both attack and defense. Swingers is more like the Northern Chinese martial arts such as Wushu. This style is more acrobatic with flying kicks combined with quick fluid motion of the arms and legs. This style is more flowery compared to Hung Gar.
If you can learn to apply the external and internal training of martial arts to golf. You could be potentially a very powerful hitter.
Range Rat asked
.
Cool x-ray. Shows just the right orientation.
Yes the joints have play. But it’s measured in thousandsths.
And the elbow joint is set with particularly high tolerances, the gap is small, and the ligaments (think of bunge cords crossed to hold a helmet on a bike saddle
) are tight.
If you want to know just exatly how much fun a loosened elbow joint can be, chat up the ball players that come by your range, and if any of them had Tommy John surgery. Anyone who comes back after that is as tough as nails.
Or to put it another way, seeing as how you posted a couple pix of a tractor a while back, the joints are roughtly analgous to a valve train on an overhead cam engine. yeah, there has to be some play, to allow for thermal expansion of the pushrods, but it better not be too much, else you get valve chatter… .
Now try this (you will need Mrs Rat): use your right bird finger to find the funny bone on your left elbow. That’s the end of the ulna. Flexing your left elbow back and forth, worm your finger back up your arm (no more than a couple finger widths or so) toward the inside (carefull here, you can twang the ulnar nerve, and set off the funny bone feeling manually). You will feel a second point. You will know you are on the right spot when you make a move with your left hand like you were undoing a grapefruit size lug nut, and feel something twist under your finger.
Now, have mrs rat take your left hand / wrist and gently pull on it. Don’t yank, load it gently and gradually.
Some folks can feel the joint open here, I can’t on me. But that will give you a rough idea of how little the (healthy) joint moves.
MEGA CAVEAT: if anyone in your life has ever used the word rheumatoid in connjuntion with your name, don’t bother with the last trick. Take it on faith that the radio ulnar joint evolved to rotate, thus giving our opposable thumbs a way to change it’s axis.
Hope that helps,
hawg1