ABS with World Champion Martial Artist Master Bill Jones

:laughing: …keep swimmin’ Bom- we’ll throw you a life-ring at the right time…

What were you guys taught in regard to abdominal pressure and posture?

I know what I was taught in Tai Chi, but before I discuss, would like to hear the Karate interpretation.

I can’t say I was ever at ease with abdominal pressure. It was relax body during attack for speed and to camouflage the intention to attack. It was tense muscles at the impact of the strike and when absorbing an attack. We had sessions where we would just hold a strong stance and with hands to the side, just absorb strikes for a good few minutes. If one relaxed the abdominal muscles even just briefly during a strike, it would be felt hard and you might go down. Keeping the muscles strong provided the physical and mental strength to take the strike with ease–iron belly stuff. I remember the change rooms after as everyone would be raw red.

The ‘kiah’ during the strike had the ‘ah’ phonetic timed with impact, causing an intense abdominal tensing. The ‘kiap’ mentioned by Master Bill Jones above is even more intense and staccato, as can be noticed just by uttering these sounds. I have tried hitting driver with a ‘kiah’ (playing on an empty course, of course) and what I gained in swing speed I lost in accuracy of hitting the sweet spot. I can see why some of the Long drivers now utter something similar as it doesn’t matter how bad 5 out of 6 shots are, just how good one is. I do think there is merit in it though as it encourages a relaxing, unrushed delivery during the ‘ki’ but explosive late acceleration into the ball for the ‘ah’. I’ve even tried timing impact with a sneeze–that was nearly an air swing.

The confusion I had with abdominal pressure was because it is also commonly believed a drunk guy in a car accident has less chance of injury because he is fully relaxed and doesn’t tense his body during impact.

Posture was a very cosmetic thing. Kata (the prearranged dances) would be judged partially on lines like a ballet dancer is, straight backs, symmetry. The kyphotic hunchback posture of a boxer or mma fighter is the more effective fighting posture but it was not used in the traditional forms. Anyone who watches Lyoto Machida (a heavily-influenced by karate UFC fighter) fight will notice how upright he appears.

But karate does consist of many drills training the body and for discipline rather than directly for fighting. The formal blocks are strikes are heavily abbreviated and wide stances aren’t used as they are too slow to be agile with. Moving around would require posture to maintain constant eye-level, but in real fighting a predictable head gets hit.

Very interesting you mentioned training in the water. After I came back from overseas, training under Hanshi, I took a job at a Gym/ Health Spa. It opened at 10:00 in the morning so I would go early and train in the pool while listening to Elton John (back in the 70s). I liked the resistance water gave me. I could get pretty tired working out his way. I felt my technique became stronger and my speed greater. Bom, it sounds like you may be working out in the deep end. I did it with my feet on the ground to simulate real combat so I was using the water as well as the ground.

I am a big MMA fan and one of the fighters was taking about training in the pool because he witnessed other fighters doing it with great results.

In all humility some of this stuff I never thought much about back in the day. I learned it and executed it with practice, practice, practice. My ABS experience has triggered much thought regarding the corelation. Thinking about it, the anchoring into the ground creates resistance in the lower body and gives a foundation for the upper body to perform it’s function be it a punch or strike.

As I wrote before, opposing forces it a cornerstone of technique. It is really evident when doing a flying side kick. In order to create any power with the leg doing the striking the other leg has to snap back in the opposing direction. Without the opposing force the technique is very weak plus it is hard to keep your balance.

You may want to stay in the “pitch and putt” side of the pool. In case of trouble you can immediately touch bottom. That is where I did most of my training.

Also, I would like to say it is great to hear from RR. I am familiar with your pain!!

A key to abdominal pressure is how it is performed. You can test it by simply tightening the stomach muscles then try it by pushing down with the shoulders and tucking up with the pelvis…trying to bring the shoulders and pelvis together to make them one. No comparison on the strike that can be taken. The latter is superior and amazing how much power can be absorbed.

It is common place in training to practice redirecting a punch from an attacker meant for the head down to the mid-section. The idea being, with proper “focus” (shoulders down and pelvis up) one can absorb the strike to the mid-section while delivering the fight ending blow to the attacker. It is also critical, as Steb mentioned, to relax immediately after the strike so the body can respond in a fluid manner.

Regarding posture, the upper body is stacked on top of the lower body. The spine is straight but not rigid. If the upper body’s weight is too forward, sideways, or backwards, balance suffers along with power and accuracy. In order to be fluid, a Karate practitioner must stay in balance. In order to do that the lower body has to be under the upper body. Just like in the golf swing, if the weight is distributed improperly the player is out of balance with power and consistency suffering.

Machida is one of my favorite if not favorite fighters. He truly brings high level Karate to the cage. Imo, what makes him so great is his “beat the fist back” style. Others have a hard time dealing with him because he is so fluid. Most other fighters are open for leg kicks because they have a boxing style with the weight forward. Machida’ Karate stance versitility makes him hard to tag.

Thanks for the thoughts, Littlealm, interesting stuff. Cool to hear you’ve had success with the underwater training, It’s been a huge eye opener for me. I train in both ends of the pool, but I do like the challenge and discipline of doing some off the Black Tees, as it were. It’s interesting that when you have the feet down, and do the same boxing action, you will find the left foot to pivot around, though the right will still go behind and in the opposite direction- much more like a good golf swing. It may be a bit out there, but it’s interesting how much more you can get out of a single breath when you get your mind in the right place- though there are undoubtedly some risks. Though with the approx 50 degree water I’m swimming in, I tend to have one eye on drowning and the other on hypothermia, but as they say, you may as well focus on the positive :slight_smile: I must add a little Rocket Man to proceedings and see how it works- he could write some songs in the 70’s.
Cheers…

One of my all time favorites. Saw him in concert in Phili in 77, best I have ever seen. Hit after hit.

Oh man, you’re killin’ me… great stuff…
At the risk of completely wrecking this thread I have to add this Tiny Dancer from The Old Grey Whistle Test- you’ve probably seen this version but it never fails to get me no matter how many times I watch it, it’s phenomenal. That show, The OGWT, was magic, so many great performances- again, you probably know that. I’m not going to embed this, but here’s the link…
youtube.com/watch?v=bD003qA4 … re=related

I could listen to his stuff all day long. That was when he and I had hair. I wore out his Yellow Brick Road album.

In school my friends were pretty rough. They loved to kid me because, although I loved rock n roll, I was also drawn to deeper heart felt songs. For lack of a better term as they would call them, “chick songs”. Maybe that is why I trained hard in Martial Arts…didn’t need to prove my masculinity.

I believe one’s choice of music says alot about that person’s heart. Opps, maybe I put the final nail in the coffin of this thread. Others will read this and send me numbers to a therapist. “Maybe that’ why yellow makes me sad”…love that commerical!

Bom,

A question: Did you choose Tiny Dancer because I go by littealm? I guess that would make sense if I wasn’t 5’10 and 190lbs…solid muscle of course…all in fun.

Thanks for the link. Made my day!

It might be a bit ironic that last night I listened to the entire “Yellow Brick Road” album while grading swing reviews. Had about 20 to do, so it took me all four sides (twice) to get through them all. I have a beautiful clean vinyl copy I play through a restored HH Scott tube amp. It sounds wonderful.

Like many things, music, martial arts, or playing a round of golf, you need to have the proper training deep in the under-laying form for the output to be a thing of beauty and quality. In the case of YBR, I would attribute so much of the quality to what is going on in the rhythm section with Olsson and Murray being a couple of serious unsung heroes back there. It’s a lot like having great leg and footwork going on in the golf swing.

Not at all, man, when someone mentions liking Elton John I always pull that video out. He’s without question telling the truth, and knowing what we know now about his life, adds to all of it. His facial expressions just blow me away during the parts when he’s just playing the piano and not singing. If you’re a fan of Family Guy, you should look up Stewie doing Rocket Man poetry style- with cigarette… classic or sacrilegious depending on where you’re coming from.
I agree about the music saying something about people- I’ve broken up with girls because of their music collection… I’m shallow like that. And I tend not to trust people who don’t need some form of therapy btw :confused: if you feel normal and that you fit nicely into this world of ours, then you’ve got some serious problems as far as I’m concerned. What do you think we’re all doing here? Feeling normal and at peace in the world of golf as it’s known? I don’t think so :mrgreen:
You guys need to bring this back to Martial Arts!!

I do think there are strong parallels between how the mind works to link things together during the learning process. In the golf swing there are no doubt a series of independent movements that must be linked together into a continuous flow that appears to be completely connected and unbroken. I am sure watching a martial artist perform a highly skilled demonstration is the work of many isolated individual actions perfected over time. I suspect it is not much different than spending hours and hours mastering forearm rotation, or a drummer doing Triple Paradiddle exercises so that they can come back and then add their majestic feel and flow to “Funeral for a Friend”. I always find watching a talented musician, especially one that plays and sings to be very parallel to playing golf shots. There is technique, feel and expression all happening at once. In martial arts, whether it looks like heavy metal (breaking bricks with your head), or Tai Chi that appears to flow like a Petrushka ballet improvisation, there is a lot of mastering and polishing the individual pieces of what make up the whole.

You work your butt off so that you can “appear” to do something with ease.

Looks like am in good company with you guys!

Bom…just a jest about littlealm and Tiny Dancer.

Great segue! Much can be derived from Martial Arts training. One of those benefits is proper breathing. It helps to provide peace with body and mind. Can be very useful in a World gone mad. I need more work on applying it to the golf swing.

So true. Many, many hours working on individual technique and then putting it into Kata (forms). From there into fighting form. Martial arts training, for those wanting to advance, is very much like ABS work. Takes time, patience, and dedication. But what of value doesn’t require the same?

I believe there is an ancillary benefit to teaching. I have been fortunate to travel and train others in Karate, the restaurant business, along with the financial services industry. I can honestly say, I learned more from teaching and training then by any other means.

Students have a way of seeing things that, many times, comes from a different frame of reference. Questions came that I never thought about. It has made me seek to a whole new level for answers knowing they were needed to get the student to the next level. Nice benefit that they did the same for me.

I think Lag would agree. I am confident he has learned a bunch from his ABS program due to the variety of students from different walks of life.

Regarding working with others and teaching. Probably the most valuable lesson I took from Hanshi was his teaching about remaining open-minded. One never stops learning and never fully arrives.

Knowing that, keeps us humble realizing we don’t have all the answers and we can learn something from everyone. Anytime we think we know it all…learning stops and we miss out on valuable relationships and treasures of knowledge.

That is one of the great things about this Forum…we can learn from everyone if we are open to it.

I would have bet a mill that you’d have a :bulb: amp

:slight_smile:

I knew that, no worries… I like to keep on the good side of people who can beat me up, so I wanted to make double sure :confused:

So I’ve been working on holding and carrying myself from my center in everyday daily stuff and I find it really great-I’ve been doing it for quite some time now. When I’m reaching for something or picking something up etc. I try to make sure that it’s with my whole body involved as it needs to be, and not just an arm going up or down. You’re point about keeping low, connected shoulders is really coming out in how it all goes. My point is that this morning I was getting some tea out of a high cupboard and without even thinking about it, I found myself reaching up out of my toes and through my legs, with a sort of upward pelvic thrust as the thing that was reaching/raising, and I felt little or no reaching in my shoulders. It was almost like I was reaching with my stomach. It was very strange but felt very strong and balanced. I was wondering how that sounds to you.

In the past I enjoyed the challenge of one on one fighting…a young man’s ego. But the fact is, I’ve never liked to hurt anybody. I much rather help someone up than knock them down. Besides, someone much wiser than me said, “you live by the sword you die by the sword.”

Thanks for the post. Now you have me thinking more consciously about my “centering”. Imho, it transfers over to everything in life. A few quick examples:

*Proper breathing should be centered and not high in the chest. It also helps create relaxation, reduces stress thus helps eliminate disease which, I believe, comes from dis-ease…lack of mind/body harmony.
*Less need for a chiropractor
*Projects poise and confidence in business and personal relationships
*Helps keep us safe. Studies show a person is more likely to be targeted by an attacker if he/she walks slumped with shoulders rounded alike they are weak and fearful. I used to have a restaurant with a lounge. Every now and then when I had to cut someone off they could become aggressive especially if they had too much to drink. Centered breathing, as well as centered posture, helped me project confidence and no fear. The end result was it helped keep me out of several possible attacks.

Hopefully I addressed your question. Again, thanks for bringing this up. I am going to pay more attention to how I am doing not only in golf but everyday activities.

Best….littlealm

Cheers, man, that makes a lot of sense. I agree that it carries all through life and into whatever situation you’re in…
Your point about dis-ease is very good. An ex girlfriend of mine, who’s a Yoga instructor, first pointed that out to me and I thought it was genius. I love words and it’s always fascinating to find words within words like that, or their true meaning…
I’m fascinated by healing, and our body’s ability to do it. I’ve had a shoulder/neck issue for ever, and earlier in the year it got pretty bad and an MRI showed a bulging disc- all surgery options for that are ugly and crude so I’m avoiding them. Anyway, I’ve committed myself to healing it- hence the center focus in my movements etc., etc. The thing that I can’t figure out, or maybe what’s driving me in my belief that “I” can heal it, is that if I cut my arm and it bleeds, in a few weeks my body will send in the workers and sow it up and take care of it- before too long there wont be a trace of it… it’s amazing really. The thing that I can’t figure out is why isn’t it healing my bulging disc? My conclusion is that the disc is a symptom of a problem that I’m not addressing, whatever it may be. My theory is that if I figure out the problem and remedy it, then my body will take care of the healing. With the cut on my arm, if I were to keep pulling the skin apart every day, or keep doing what I did to cut it in the first place, then it’s not going to heal. Therefore, with my neck, if I can just figure out what the hell I’m doing that’s causing my dis-ease, then I firmly believe that “I” can heal my neck. Suffice it to say, it’s a slow work in progress…
Thanks for your thoughts…
B

Bom Sorry to say but there are special tissues in the body which dont heal or regenerate and the vertebral disc is one of them. Why so? Its the functional requirment of these tissues to not have blood vessels. As the disc is supposed to squish it wont be a good idea to have blood vessels as they would rupture and bleed all the time. It gets its nutrients from the surrounding area by osmosis. The retina is another one, for a different reason though. If there were blood vessels there your vision will be like looking through trees.