12 Piece Bucket with a side of ABS and TGM

Well… ABS has now officially arrived as a golf internet forum with the arrival of member #410 - one 12 Piece Bucket! Let me officially welcome 12P to the site!!! What took you so long?!

12 knows me but he may not know who I am here. :wink: Range Rat… you and 12 should get along famously!

To all other forum members… you’ve been fore-warned!

Good to have you hear 12,


Wow! Thanks dude! I have been advised by Mr. Amen Corner that this is a joint that has much to offer . . .

Maybe I can contribute in my lil’ goofy way . . .

Thanks for the warm welcome! I have been reading . . . Interesting stuff! Great pics too! May need someone to hold my “virtual” hand . . . I’ll even wipe all the boogers off of it. I unfortunately will be living in a tent for the next 4 days (long story involving banjo music, starter mullets and muscle cars) and will not have my “devices” . . . so I gotta sign off . . . but upon my return (assuming I make it back) I look forward to making the trek up what is generally a steep learning curve for someone like me who crapped out in the genetic crap shoot of life.

Good to hear from you and thanks again for the kind welcome!


Also welcome–I very much used to enjoy your posts on LBG.

Why do I feel like there is a baited hook in the water :laughing:

I went over to LBG to check on things…BTW, that site seems too complicated to me to find stuff…maybe I’m just used to and comfortable navigating ABS. Anyway, I can tell I am in way over my head perhaps. The guy has over 4000 posts and I am starting to feel that I have overextended my stay with ABS with the number of posts I’ve entered…

But I am curious what the next hole looks like… :slight_smile: RR

Mountain Man: I bet you can squeal like a pig. Weeeeeeee!
Bobby: Weee!
Mountain Man: Weeeeeeee!
Bobby: Weee!

Mountain Man: What do you want to do now?
Toothless Man: [grinning] He’s got a real pretty mouth on him, don’t he?
Mountain Man: Ain’t that the truth.
Toothless Man: [to Ed] You gonna do some prayin’ for me, boy. And you better pray real good.

Just bend at the knee, Bukit. :wink:

Captain Chaos

Bucket is the best poster on the web, very happy to have him here.

Hey RC how come I get no credit?

Sorry dude! You are correct . . . you were the FIRST to talk to me about this . . . I do remember . . . I wasn’t smart enough to hear you! Sorry mang!

Nonononooooooooo… :astonished:

ok. lets clear this out… when did bob talk to you about this…

Lag will have you pivoting like a whirling dervish…soon!

OK . . . . I have done enough due diligence rooting around here, talking to people and learning some of the stuff to be sufficiently teased to a dueling banjo squeeling type frenzy at this point . . . leant enough to know that this is some of the strongest golf doo doo I’ve sniffed . . . PERIOD . . .

I do have on thing to get off my chest . . . . I think some of the stuff on TGM may be an issue with some apostles’ INTERPRETATION of Homer’s stuff rather than Homer’s actual stuff . . . I been called the lieutenant of “book literalistz” at other cyber joints . . . but I certainly don’t think the book is infallible . . . there’s only one infallible book in my world . . . and it ain’t Mr. Kelley’s. But the “was Homer right or wrong” is not really a conversation I need to have here. I’m here to learn y’all’s stuff. From what I can see you are strong like a garlic milkshake on APPLICATION . . . and that’s what I need is some APPLICATION . . .

I got a BUNCH of questions . . . . Don’t know if this is the appropriate thread to start axin’ 'em or not . . . but I’m really geeked up about what y’all have going on over here. GOOD STUFF!!! I may have to do a module . . . I thought that was some kinda strange v.d. or something . . . but I’m starting to learn y’all’s spanglish now.

Stronger than ammonia…

It isn’t James Joyce’s ‘Ulysses’ by any chance? :slight_smile:

We haven’t had a good TGM discussion here in a while… I don’t mind discussing what I feel is correct, incorrect, or simply omitted. If you would like can change this topic to something like:

12 Piece Bucket with a side of ABS and TGM

How does that sound?

I’d like to see a thread where the shortcomings of TGM could be summarized or listed.

“TGM shortcomings” ( errors/inaccuracies/omissions)

I don’t know if that’d be included in what you have proposed, or could be additional.

Conversely, we could have a thread listing where TGM got it right.

I’m certainly cool with that . . . . I spent so much time studying that freakin’ book my filter to the golf world is yellow. I have some questions . . . like REAL questions. . . not the kind that people ask to bait you. I’ve studied a bunch of stuff (Homer, Philly Mac O’Grady, P&B . . . Dalton McCrary) and just need to get an idea of how the pieces fit . . . my language aside from “southern mini-truck mullet inbred” is stuff like 4-1-2-3 and there is no angle of approach to an angle of approach procedure . . . stuff that would get you cut at most golf courses around here.

So if it’s OK to fire . . . I got the pea shooter all loaded up :slight_smile:.

Fire away… :smiling_imp:

The main issues with TGM from my perspective are:

  1. Homer was not a good enough player to understand certain things that need to happen within the body for the proper
    visual or observable to manifest.

  2. Homer didn’t properly catalog the THREE options available for right arm participation through impact.

  3. Homer had a respectable grasp on scientific theory regarding the golf swing, but probably not to the level that some like
    Mandrin or others have (real scientists not just engineering background) so this creates the endless black hole debates about the science stuff, proper terminology, universally accepted definitions, which lead to endless dead ends such as “law of the flail” and all that stuff.

  4. The assumption that the body is a machine or can replicate one is questionable.

  5. A machine such as Iron Byron (at least the one I saw) was bolted to the ground or a concrete platform, while a human
    doesn’t have that luxury, therefore we have to approach things quite differently regarding ground pressures.

  6. The swing plane of a proper golf swing is simply NOT 2D nor should it be thought of that way. The swing plane MUST be moving into 3 dimensions.

  7. TGM’s typical view that once the ball leaves the clubface the swing is over or “what does it matter” is certain swing cancer.

  8. Any suggestion that the head should remain stationary in the golf swing is also very harmful to entertain.

  9. The belief that hitting and swinging are equally effective is more than questionable, because just the fact that their procedures are differing should suggest differing results also.

  10. The over sight of what I call “the 5th accumulator” post impact is a very significant oversight.

Just for starters…

Today is a perfect day . . . all the minions have bailed out early to get all high on tryptophan and sweet tater pie . . . so I’m printing your TGM discussion deal out to read over . . . all my peeps tell me that’s where I should start.

But I’d like to talk first about Right Elbows if that’s cool with you . . . .

I know you have a different deal on the right elbow than Homer (Homer said in the tapes that if he had it to do over again he’d right the whole book on the right elbow) . . . .

so his basic “positions” alignments or whatever were Pitch Punch Push right . . . but I know you got another variation that he didn’t catalog . . . I’d like to know the difference and what the mechanical advantage of the other one is?

And . . . you can’t have a good golf discussion if you don’t talk about Hogan right? I see cats put pics of Hogan up and you can see people put up swings that support their “theory” . . . I think Hogan did whatever the heck he wanted to do. But I do see some pics of him where he looks Punchy . . . maybe post wreck? . . . some where he looks Pitchy . . . and then pics too where I think he’s doing what I think your variation is where he’s got #1 accumulator left long after the bidness has been done . . . So was Hogan a Pitch hitter? Punch Hitter? or “non-Homer” cataloged hitter?

The corn is popped, the beverage is frosty cold and my feet are up! :laughing: 12 piece does not need any vouching, but he is an open-minded thinker (despite his terminal Mason-Dixonitis :smiley: Bucket, for what it is worth TGM talks about Zone 1, and emphasizes the importance of the pivot but does not bring us closer to knowing how to do it. Admittedly, I have not participated in the modules but reading posts has helped me understand how dynamic and continuous the pivot needs to be. Hitting 50 golf balls is a bit of a work out since I activated my pivot (and started using heavier old school blades :slight_smile: )Never have I ever given a rat’s patoot (sorry RR) about what happens post impact…NOW…it is what I think about most. It has been a while since I even took notice of my backswing. To me Lags ideas fit nicely with d-plane and trackman etc. I can’t get the club to exit ala hogan…yet but it is not nearly as armsy as it used to be.


The right arm threw impact can do three things

It can take a relaxed passive hinge like role.

It can drive through like an active piston.

It can resist the outward force of CF, pulling against it. Homer didn’t discuss this very important option as he should have.
If you are only observing the arm through photos or video, it could appear that the right arm is driving or thrusting straight
because the attempt to pull against CF usually fails to some degree due to the forces incurred at higher velocities. And this is also going to be effected by the mass of heavier clubs.

The right elbow straightening also closes the clubface, and sends the shaft out to the right off plane. Homer talked about this occurring (clubshaft moving into a parallel plane) post impact somewhere in chapter 2 if I remember. This will be the case with a straightening right elbow unless you do it right like Moe did, and play off a turned shoulder or shoulder plane instead of a dantien plane such as Hogan and other great hitters.

As far as the hitting vs swinging debate, I don’t enter it with TGMers because Homer’s “drive the right arm”, stuff zeroing out accumulator #4 is complete garbage.