I have a question regarding the top view of Tiger’s sequence, referring to the the P3 position which is seen clearly. In ABS, the club should be at 4:30 on the P3 position. In Tiger’s photos, the club isn’t cocked back to 4:30 but is parallel to his target line more like a 3:00 position. In a hitters protocol, should the club be cocked backwards more, seen from this top view should the clubhead be more behind the right heel of Tiger? Hope someone can shed some light here.
Thanks for that link – for some reason, I totally slept on about 13 of the 14 pages of that thread, TM. You’ve posted some wonderful stuff (sequences included) over there.
Nick,
If there was a frame capture between those two stills, you would see Tiger right on the 4:30 line coming down…
The shaft will be on a 3:00 line for only a split second, so it is not good for us to focus on that… much better for us to feel, and visually see the shaft coming from behind us on the 4:30 line for a much longer time out of the corner of our right eye.
Then our hands fire right at the last split second with 3:00 being only an instantaneous pass through which no one can see or should ever feel.
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I love that overhead view, it’s got to be my favourite way to look at the swing…
I thought I’d mention this since it sort of ties in… I had a happy accident the other day after it had been raining. The patio area was all wet and had a sort of mirror look to it and as I was making some practice swings I could see the club work around me really nicely in the reflection on the ground. It was a great way to look at the shaft entry and exit angles while staying in posture. I think I’m going to get myself some sort of sturdy mirror surface to stand on and use in the same way…
Can’t remember whether I read it here or not (maybe LCDV?), but I know I’ve seen a tidbit that Hogan liked to practice not only in a particular spot relative to the prevailing winds, but also with the sun behind him in a precise spot so he could observe his shadow-- actually, now I do remember - I think it was 8i on another forum.
also never with a big L to R wind because he couldn’t tell how much he was really hooking it.
John Daly - with an overhead for Bom
His 430 line and eventual impact position from the rear view are actually pretty phenomenal considering the length of backswing…it was little wonder he burst on the scene and won that PGA and Open- that was before everyone could bomb it 320 with all the new techno bs-- all he had to do was rip it long and straight like he did at Crooked Stick and putt half well and at St.Andrews when he won the course was like a par 68 for him
Great stuff…gotta love J.D…even though he has made it hard on himself with his off course antics sometimes
Tiger- I am a bit unsure how he states 'No Flip Here"…it looks flippy to me…those hands have well and truly crossed over and from the rear and front on view you can see his hands/arms flying outwards and away from his body and target line
Thanks Twomasters, thats great. I love The Daly, what a guy. That guy has so much game it’s insane. It’s almost comical that he’s known just for his length, which is awesome obviously, but he’s got touch that I’d put up there with Mickelson. I’d love to see him get his act together at some point, hopefully he’s in the middle of that right now. Yeah, he hit it 300 plus when that actually meant something. He had the flight too! It just hung high and soft in the air- it’s the weirdest coolest thing to see. Not many can do that. Did you ever get to play with him? I followed him when I was younger one year at the Irish Open and I don’t know what I expected but it was different than I thought. Like I was saying up there, a ball that goes that far, yet looks like it was hit soft… beautiful stuff…
And speaking of shadows, the one in his sequence is my nemesis… if the sun is coming over my right shoulder just past mid day with my shadow short and compact out at an angle off my left side, I’ll put the house on me hitting a good shot… if it’s a long shadow stretching out to the right I’ll hit it thin and weak… it’s insane… though I’m glad to hear that Hogan had a shadow thing too, makes me feel a little better…
Not sure what Tiger’s definition of a ‘flip’ is. To me, a standard ‘flip’ is when the left wrist is bent at impact. His is not. However, the crossover past impact can be a bit problematic and is something I’m struggling with as well. Basically, I don’t think you can ‘crossover’ unless you are swinging out to the right. Hogan had zero crossover and he swung quite a bit to the left, like Lag points out. Here, Tiger looks like he’s swinging to the right…like Lag points out with Moe Norman, when you look at the DTL view. The ‘crossover’ from the Face On view just helps confirm that.
That’s okay with a driver if you hit up with the driver. If you hit down with a driver (and the irons), then that can be an issue. According to Trackman, Tiger hits about -3* down with the driver. In order to hit it dead straight with that attack angle, he needs to get the hands and the clubhead moving left like Lag teaches ‘hitters.’ I still think he hits too far down with the driver, probably needs something like -1* or closer to a ‘flat hit’, -3* is quite a bit down. When he hits that dead right block, the clubface has to be wide open at impact. Since those blocks are straight, that means his club path is out to the right as well.
I think the problem with Tiger starts with the grip, and he either needs to be better educated on D-Plane or make adjustments to swing further left.
3JACK
Love how Daly flattens it out into a great P3 4:30 line. No mysteries… it’s pure technical artistry and like TM said, it’s a textbook move.
Tiger really has two golf swings…
I love his iron swing… his driver swing just gives everyone else a chance each week.
It’s really surprising he can’t seem to figure it out. I think it’s a shame the only thing he is figuring out with the driver is how to avoid
the best courses, the ones that make you hit the ball straight off the tee.
It’s even more of a shame the tour bends to his desires, as they keep pulling the best tracks off the tour, to entice him to play their bomb and gouge event on another wide open eye glazer.
Tiger should win every event he plays.
Peter Thomson. Look at the pivot from P3 to P4, plenty of right arm at P4. Lovely.
3JACK
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Well,
Another great of the game… saving right arm… or actually moving through impact with a frozen right arm…
It’s tricky to do this…
I never understood why Homer’s TGM ignored this as a component concept.
I don’t…
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Old school anti-hook move. Not a bad move either if you want to practice lowering the rt shoulder through the zone. I think it would be tough to do and work the hands hard enough left post impact at the same time though.
Let’s get back to Hogan for a minute. Since it’s my one month anniversery @ ABS, I’ll show you his secret to the frozen right arm. It’s easy if you know where to look…but don’t listen to what he says…watch what he subconsiously does. But I’ll need some help from you computer savy people to get stuff from YouTube over to ABS.
There’s a caddy view video of Hogan which is 1:13 minutes long talking about the importance of the lower body starting the downswing. I found it @ Braithwaite 78 if that helps.
Stop @ .054 seconds. He says he wants to show us “what starts first from the top of the backswing”- you won’t see his lower body move at all…he moves his R arm. Pretty interesting subconscious slip-up. When that right arm moves as he’s showing us the left side is doomed to clear properly. Hope that is convincing…
Now if I can only convince my wife I’m not having an on-line affair with some babes from Belgium. 
RR,
I uploaded this video to my Youtube account last week,
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rtJCXguifw[/youtube]
I was thinking just the same as you, but i used the clip from 29 seconds, not 54.
Amazingly i uploaded it about 30 minutes before you made your post. What the flip is going on? Way too spooky for me.
This may have been his feeling but I really don’t think this is a good start down move. The right arm really does have to straighten out a little and the hands have to travel away from the right shoulder- which, incidentally, is what he actually did. If the right elbow doesn’t straighten out a little then the pivot will have to unwind too early to bring the club down- it has no other way of getting down at that point unless the arms just swing away together in that unit which wouldn’t be pretty either. Interestingly this move does make the left side clear early, which isn’t actually good. This is a spin out hackers move that encourages an out to in flip chop- and is one of the negative legacies or misunderstandings from his Five Lessons. It keeps the club way too high and will only lead to panic and steepness through impact.
As far as RR’s reference to the left side clearing, I really don’t think that’s a good move, or even anything real. It’s in the parlance of the game, but it’s not a good intent. Clearing the left side suggests that it has no use, that we just need to get it out of the way. In reality we need it to be in place for when it’s required because it’s going to be pulling and accelerating in it’s own way just as much as the right side will be doing it’s thing. It needs to be ready and strong, not out of the way…
IMO and experience, of course…
I couldn’t agree more. This is the only thing in 5 fundamentals that i’ve never liked. Most athletes naturally move there hips well already, so anymore conscious effort to start the d/s with the hips can really bring in some problems. Maybe hogan was trying to convey that this is what he would tell non-athletes that are trying to learn the game. For me, being a multi-sport athlete, and especially throwing a football or baseball, the hips really play a significant roll, and, in golf, this is something I have to minimize at the start of my d/s or I will get so stuck that i’ll have no option but to flip at the ball.
Amen to Bom and Parker.