Interesting photo’s! I’m not an equipment expert, but I wonder if it’s a combination of face progression, effective lofts, and CG locations that you’re seeing. Face progression is the distance from the leading edge to the centerline of the hosel. Assuming the Hogan’s are on the right in each pic, it appears the Hogans have leading edges located further to the right relative to the hosel c/l as viewed in your pics.
I also believe the “effective loft” of an iron is measured from the face to the center-line of the hosel not the face angle to the sole, so you may have to be careful about drawing certain conclusions with your last picture. If the angle of the camera is reasonably good when you took the pics, it looks like the Wilson 9-iron has a much higher effective loft than the Hogan (a rough estimate using the green lines and the centerline of the hosels). Even the 2-irons look to have relatively different effective lofts. The Wilson’s also appear to be meatier down low, which would lower the CG (and probably loft a shot higher).
All that said, it’s interesting to speculate what the designers of each club had in mind, and if their concept of a proper swing dictated much about how they went about their club designs, which I think was part of your original question… i.e. did the Wilson designer believe you needed a lot of forward shaft lean at impact? If I use only the 3 factors I mentioned, the Wilsons seem to be designed with factors that tend to heighten ball flight. Perhaps a forward leaning shaft (relative to the sole of the club) is required to “optimize” trajectory?
Interesting observations Robbo, thanks! I think you’re spot on with your conclusion that the effective loft of the Wilson 9i is much weaker. One last picture to demonstrate the difference in face offset and loft between the two: (Here the shafts are parallel to each other.)
The main question remains:
Is it possible and advisable to bend the Wilsons so strong that they more closely reflect the Hogans. Or perhaps I should stop whining and ‘play the club as it sits’?
Any problem with bending the Mizuno MP-33 irons? Are these the irons you have 2 degrees flat and use for competition? Do you think they would bend 6 degrees without a problem?
Also you mentioned inconsistency with club manufacturing. Are the Mizuno’s pretty consistent? Thanks
mp33 will bend as much as you want…i have had them down as flat as 6 degrees and then bumped them back up to 2 -3 flat to use as playing clubs until I get my swing down flatter and flatter for competition mode…and they will be able to be moved down again if need be
Thanks for your response. I have been following a set on Ebay. Does Mizuno make a pretty consistent product or should I try to go the demo route you mentioned in a previous post?
irons are fine…woods can get tricky because of face thickness, shaft kick point, weight etc… wont have a problem with iron discrepancy if they are steel shaft
’
twomasters - took your advice and found a 9.5 R9 with a Matrix HD6 X Flex shaft - set as flat as it would go - beefed it up to D7 - and it is a fab club - thought the X flex might make it a bit more difficult to hit a draw - not at all - this club and the Mod 1&2 work has added 25 yards + to my drives - and for the most part they are in play - can’t wait to get to Mod#3 -
as an aside - one of Lag’s students voiced a concern elsewhere in the Forum about being a hitter and the effect when he was 20 years older and had lost some strength - at least for me I can say don’t worry - will be 67 next month and have found being a “hitter” convert has added both quality and length to my shots - and I am convinced I will be a better player as a hitter at 70 than I was as a swinger in my youth - ABS, plus the short game insights you provide and Barkow’s putting theories diligently worked on will allow anyone to reach their golfing goals - I have no doubt my current goals will be met sooner than later, and that new goals will have to be set - thanks - this is all so
I played in my first tournament yesterday, junior (16-18) qualifier, and I played with this kid who said he was a D1 prospect, he had a lot of specialty shots that I haven’t developed yet. Anyway, I shot 83 for 1st alternate, he ended up withdrawing on the 15th hole (I guess because of poor play, he was getting pissed haha), but I was wondering if you could give some tips on how to hit the low punch shot runner, like escape from the woods shot, that I saw this kid fire at pins when I would have just pitched out. Thanks for your time sir.
Ball back in stance-- center of gravity forward-- this delofts the club and keeps hands forward…punch and hold through the shot to keep the loft down
Fool around with that thought for a while and I will fine tune it for you if you have any farther questions.
** The one key thing I do to help this is as follows**
I actually shut the clubface at address a little. Why?.. because on my normal swing approach into the ball my club would be open at the point I now have the ball positioned.
Closing the face a hair compensates for the open face I should have and now the face will be close to square when I strike it in this rear ball position scenario
Hi Bradley,
Wanted to introduce myself having started ABS program a few days ago. I have begun work on M1 which has been somewhat humbling to say the least. Nonetheless it is exciting and I can already feel marked improvements in the drill. I have also started looking for a set of old irons to flatten and a persimmon driver to use for practice. My question to you relates to my current driver which is a TM R9. As you or someone else mentioned it feels like a fly swatter and I was wondering how I could increase the weight. Is it as simple as buying heavier cartridges (and if so what weights should I buy) or is it more involved.
Heavier weights can help…I think they have 16g…maybe?? I can’t remember what they went up to…certainly 12
The only problem with the weights is getting the C.O.G too heavy down low or on the toe or on the heel really affects the face and shot patterns when you fool around with those drivers by distributing weight around
I did my R9 differently and just went with a heavier shaft to up some weight…but I am still not 100% happy with it and have actually ditched it for now for an older smaller titanium head in a PING model…heavy shaft and stiff as a board
If you can get your hands on some weights that would/should be a cheaper option to start with and see if it helps…but only go through all the process if you like the head and are happy with the club
Welcome to ABS…
Bradley, thanks for the advice. Will look into the weights but I’m not sure that I like the club enough to invest much in it . Hopefully I will get a better idea of what feels right when I get a persimmon driver. In the mean time I will continue to grind away at mod 1.
Got my mp33s off Ebay had them bent 6 degrees flat. Super clubs. Very solid with great feeback. I love the looks and feel of them. Thanks for your help.
just wanted to say hello and introduce myself. As i said to Lag before, i´m really excited to have found this program and got accepted into it.
As you can see, my post count is … pretty low, despite the fact that i stumbled across this site a couple weeks ago and mainly have been lurking since. But for somebody who is relativly new to a TGM terminology and in depth discussions about the golf swing, that all is still quite intimidating to me. But i will do my best to catch up and read through the wealth of information posted on this site and hopefully can become more involved in ongoing discussions.
i was wondering, at another blog i read a post of somebody who just played Sahalee the day after the Senior US Open, and one thing she noticed were the rock hard fairways. Now with Firestone coming up, which seems another bombers paradise with rock hard fairways, as it has shown in the past (i think JB Holmes had one 400+ in the past), does the Tour actually mandates such hard fairways? Could you shed some light on this topic, if this is on purpose or why that is.
Not necessarily…a lot depends on weather.
I found it very rare in the US playing to have rolling conditions except for the US Open or the TPC at Sawgrass one or two years.
water on the course is a huge thing in the US so the course looks pristine on TV…and of course spring summer are pretty much the rainy season… bit of a drought right now so these running conditions are more obvious than previous because of that
So we may have a few fairways that are running but they balance it out by pumping water on the greens…longer drives with greens that stop on a dime and there is all the low scoring we are seeing because the ball also rolls true on the billiard table surfaces.
I can tell you right now from player meetings that most US players dislike the hard fast course setup from tee to green all the way…if the greens were hard and fast right now there would be complaints from all and sundry…but they love the fairways fast and the greens soft…if it was the other way around the scoring would jump higher considerably in an instant
I am really unsure about the way they set the courses up nowdays. I think par should mean something. driving the ball straight should mean something & the ability to hit a solid iron into a green to a select portion and only allow well struck shots to stop within a certain distance should be prevalent also. Most courses are even keeping the rough down lower … it’s dumbing down golf for TV and not challenging to too many of the players at all these days, especially the ones who can roll their rock.
I was never a great putter…just good or solid and I could compete when the course was tough…where driving was premium and good irons were premium… I dont know how I would go out there where it is a putting contest with no restrictions on how well you really have to hit it. It is a strange direction that golf has now been altered by rewarding the pros from the green backwards to the tee…but it is what it is right now. The tour can do anything they want with regards to course setup, but true golf art should still be the goal and I think they have lost sight of that… as they say ‘These Guys Are Good’…but maybe not as good as we are lead to believe because of the conditions and course they are presented with most weeks…‘These Guys Are Good (putters & chippers)’ may be a better slogan
I am a bit unsure but I seem to recollect that you intended to try and qualify for the tour next year. I, and I am sure many others here, would be very grateful if you could provide us an update on your current situation and the stage you are at (if any). I would really like to follow your preparation and progress if you are taking this path. Any insight/detail would be greatly appreciated.
No…qualifying school this year
Looks like I will however head out to Australia to play NSW Open, Australian Open and Australian PGA
I wasn’t prepared for q-school as I have not had enough time to practice or prepare having a club job and teaching, so I never entered it.
I would be exempt through to 2nd stage on the basis of cuts made on the PGA so my stage wouldn’t start for another 2 weeks or so but never entered in the first place.
As the weather is beginning to wind down here, I now have a month to get some work in for the down under events which will be nice to get home and play again
I haven’t been there for 2 years to play so am looking forward to it.
is there an exempt status if you won a tournament before, e.g. for the Australian Masters and how long would that be granted? Does it require you to hold a playing tour card on some circut?
The Australian PGA is an event for the australian PGA professionals i assume?
to demonstrate the difference in face offset and loft between the two: (Here the shafts are parallel to each other.)
