I think it can all start to get a bit complicated, I suppose 1 degree open would be the same as 10 degrees flat with 9 degrees loft.??
But lie angle has a lot to do with how high you bring your hands in at impact and really affects the spin axis of the ball if you don’t bring the club through on plane. I would much rather have a set where the lies run in a nice sequence, instead of 5 degree flat irons and a 59 degree driver set open. Thought i do have some open drivers. 
Ahh a light bulb begins to flicker but does not yet shine
Gandhi said:
First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.
Looks like step two to me, don’t worry I’ll keep it slow and easy, I’m not going anywhere. Complicated is subjective, personally I don’t consider high school geometry terribly complicated but that’s me. Coincidentally I have been doing this twenty years with an open mind and an understanding of mathematics rather than dogmatic programming. You know those questions and the attitudes so many other players give you when they see the persimmon and blades and don’t get any of this? Well you’re not allowed to be annoyed at them for a while…
Now for the time being disregard the change in loft, yes it changes and it is an application of 1/2Πr{sq} but we’ll get to that later. Now if you open the face in relation to the shaft line it changes all three dimensions. First it will point the face AT THE TARGET. Now the ball goes where the clubface is pointed, end of story. It doesn’t matter what angle the grooves are pointed or what the lie angle is on a club that doesn’t touch the ground etcetera etcetera. Now again this is only on a driver because it doesn’t touch the ground, but “spin axis” & “arm straightening” in this instance would be figments of your imagination which need to be dealt with. Quite simply the dog wags the tail, not vice versa.
The other things that change are the shape of the face and the loft, more on that as we go along. But the action you impart on the club is up to you. Once again the club never touches the ground unless you keep hitting "Drop kick me Jesus through the goal post of life"s all day and that doesn’t really change anything either.
Now this may be a bit soon for this question but I want to challenge you a bit. Wait a couple of days to ponder this until you are conceptually comfortable with the above, we’re almost halfway home here. But when you’re ready:
When you miss a shot toward the toe of the club do you tend to hit it high or low on the clubface?
Na, way too complicated for me and I wouldn’t dare compete with someone as talented and smart as you are. But then again you’re the only one who is so smart to know that lead tape doesn’t transfer energy, that changing swing weight by shaft length is a way to go and that Greg Norman is a massive flipper, am i missing some?. Ok. back to not reading your posts again, lifes too short. 
Hi guys
Is any one can help me to make flatten modern driver?
I don’t mind pay for it.
Driver head must be in R&A confirming list.
Actually I tried to bend it my 2 titanium driver today…
My 2 modern driver went to trash…hahaha
Seriousely I need flatter modern driver for touring.
Kentaro
Hi Kentaro,
I’ve made quite a few flat modern drivers for students here and can probably bend you one flat.
I’ll send you my email via PM.
Neil
Neil
Thank you!
Kentaro
Well, tried my first titanium driver loft bend. Taylormade R7. It has a decent amount of hosel that I could get the bending bar on.
Attempt #1, couldn’t get a good grip on my vise. Tried to do it like NRG had set up but I have a pipe clamping teeth under the main jaw that kept it from staying solid. Did the heat and bend attempt and it just move the whole head after a certain amount of pressure. No bending done.
Attempt #2, tried another vise that didn’t have a pipe clamp under the jaws but had a round rotating head. Somewhat better clamping but the head still moved when any real pressure applied. Did the heat and bend attempt and it just move the whole head after a certain amount of pressure. No bending done.
Attempt #3, Forged two rings about 3’ rings of 1/2 inch round to use as a clamping devices between the jaws to put the pressure on top of the driver and the bottom of the driver. That way it spread the pressure out without denting/creasing the top. Put a leather welding glove between the clubhead and rings. Tightened jaws and it clamped it in place like a lion grabbing a gazelle. Got the propane going and tried the bend. Gave it too much bend after having it move so easily on the first two attempts and CRACK!!! Half the hosel on the stretch side got a cracked open spot. Lie angle is about 40 degrees. About 10 more than I was looking for. Should of eased into it but got too aggressive after the first two attempts being so mushy.
I ran around and found some more used drivers. I got a Taylormade R5 and I got 3 Titleist 975D drivers (8.5/9.5/10.5 degrees lofts). They have very long hosels. I can try on those again. Hopefully this I’ll get one of these to move without cracking.
NRG, have you tried to do any titanium drivers with cold bending or do you always do it hot?
If possible, can you show a photo of the rings you made for clamping the head and how you positioned everything for clamping to do the bending. Thanks.
1T
Ironsmith, I’ve never tried cold bending. I have snapped about 3 or 4 of them though, I think sometimes the metal just isn’t very good. From experience, lots of heat is very important, can’t see cold bending working. But let us know if it works cause it will save a lot of work refinishing them of it does.
When I get a chance, I will snap some pics. I might do it when I get some time free to try the R5 this time. Hopefully this one will be successful. Hate to go through 3 or 4 of em like NRG did. 
If I can get it bent properly, I’ll burn off the paint and polish it down and try to do a titanium flame coloring and then clear coat it. Titanium makes some great colors from the oxidation process. Crazy blues/purples and golds. Just depends on the temps you bring them up to and how steady you apply the heat.
NRG, I think cold bending might be an issue with the 975Ds since they have the bore through hosel. I’d have to bend the hosel and the shaft. I don’t think graphite likes to bend much. A steel shaft maybe but then I’d have a kinked shaft stuck in there.
I guess we are out on the bleeding edge of titanium adjustments and have to be the pioneers. 
I remove the old shaft and put a dummy piece of shaft in the borethru hole and finish it flush. So once it’s bent I becomes a standard bore. Then strip them, sand, paint and lacquer. I don’t think anyone has ever noticed they aren’t out of the factory.
Ahh. Nice trick there. So even if I cold bend them (975D), I would still need to remove the shaft first anyway. Might as well hot bend it then.
I had used the tip of the shaft that I had cut off to length off the shaft I was going to put in my R7 as a hosel plug to keep it from collapsing the hosel when I bent it. In fact it’s stuck in the cracked hosel now. 
The R5 I just got is probably the only candidate for a cold bend. Have to think about it since I do want to replace the graphite shaft with a steel shaft so I need to take out the shaft anyway. Might as well hot bend it too.
I’ll let you know what happens (good or bad).
If you re read JHs original instructions, he says to stick a drill bit in the hosel where the new shaft will sit so you have a straight hole to get the new shaft in after the bend.
Boy, we are getting a lot of tips and tricks put together here aren’t we?
Nice one on the drill bit, easy to find the right size hosel plug since most decent drill bit sets are at least in 1/16 increments.
Sounds like I’m going to be busy this weekend.
I’ve got about 10 drivers or so that I’ve snapped over the past couple of years bending, so I decided to cut one of them in half.
Was quite suprised at how think the faces are on these things
Main reason I did this was to have a look to see if there were any obstruction behind the hole in the sole to see if I could add some weight via the hole.
You can see the non drying glue on the inside of the crown that the manufacturer injected through the hole to bring the swing weight up on the original club.
I injected some silicone in through the hole on another snapped club, but it’s too heavy and brought the weight up way too much. The clubhead alone is now 11.5 oz; need to find something a wee bit less dense.
I tried injecting a clubhead with expanding foam today. When I removed the nosel from the hole, the foam pretty much expolded, most of it going all over me clothes hands and face, and that stuff is a bastard to clean up. Back to the drawing board.
Just a heads up. If you take an r11s driver and adjust the sole plate on the bottom to fully open then adjust the shaft adjuster to fully open it drops the lie angle to almost same lie angle as my persimmon 2 wood at lags specs.
I can get a picture up if anyone is interested but i will need to find a protractor.
well I am not sure how flat the R11S will go
golftoday.co.uk/equipment/ne … _r11s.html
but I doubt it will go as flat at 48deg
I would be interest. I am looking at this driver for my son who plays varsity golf. Her is using persimmons to practice so I would be interested in knowing if a driver like this can be made flatter without bending.
Thanks,
M3S