# Understanding Flat Lie Angles

I have looked in various threads to find out the following but I probably missed it: For someone that does not understand flat lie angles, how does one know how to set the right angle? How does a person know if it is right? How do you go about having it done? Is it standard for an ABS person to ask to have it set at 5 or 6 degrees flat? Thanks…littlealm

little,

No - it’s not unusual for an ABS student to ask that his irons be s/u at 5 or 6 degrees flat. Some students take it much further (is it Macs that has a club set at 12 flat?). Most folks will have a club repair guy do the work although some on here have developed other ways of doing it. (If it’s a forged iron, don’t let a club repairman tell you it can’t be flattened more than a couple of degrees).

I don’t think there is a strict formula. “Standard” is simply how the OEM sets the clubs up to begin with and it’s usually how they come off the rack at the store (chances are they’re too upright to begin with). I don’t think it would be out of the question to start off at 3 or 4 degrees flat (I started at 3 but went to 5 pretty quickly). Some of it might depend on your playing/practice situation. If you’re trying to still play as you go thru the course then you may want to “ease” into it, but if you’re really focusing on module work only then you may want to go right to 5 degrees or so.

You might just start with flattening a spare practice club (a 2 iron or something like that) if you’re uncomfortable committing your whole set. You’ll eventually figure out what the “right” number is and it may change as you move thru the course work.

robbo

Robbo is correct,
I have my module bag whacking club set way down – probably around 10 flat-- this gives the brain an unusual image to start but really makes it easier to get in tune with the flatter rotation and pivot work we are after. It then made it easier to adjust to the entire set as I dropped the lie angles.

I started out with a set that I bent to 3 degrees flat-- got used to them and then went to around 6 degrees flat and now that degree of flatness looks absolutely pleasant to my eye-- many who pick up my clubs cringe when they see how flat they are-- they don’t however understand the brilliant logic behind it all

Obviously I have my own loft lie machine and there is no cost involved for me to bend my own gear… I am sure it gets costly to take them somewhere and bend them once and then have to bring them back to be bent even farther once you are adjusted to the look and feel involved.

I think the key is getting that bag beating club way way down flat to begin with…and then the task of dropping your real play set down in lie angle becomes much easier much quicker and you will be able to drop them deep to 4 or 5 or even 6 flat first up and keep them there without having to alter them again.

Thanks guys:

I will start with my bag beating club. That sounds like a great idea.

I just purchased some Ben Hogan Medallion (1978-1981) forged irons, with Legend 4 stiff shafts. I tested them in my backyard (I have the space to hit up to a 5 iron I just have to make sure I don’t hit one of my horses or goats) and I hit them better than my AP2’s. I picked them up on Ebay for \$69.00 which included shipping. They have original grips and the face and grooves are in surprisingly good shape. It is hard to believe few people want these vintage clubs.

After I become more advanced in the Modules, I will adjust the lie angles as you have suggested. I can get them done at Golfsmith for only \$4.99 a club so if I need to adjust them again down the road it won’t be too hard on the pocketbook especially for the price I bought them for.

After doing some further reading regarding lie angles, it sounds like my divots will tell me a lot. Is that a good way to tell if the lie angles are correct from your experiences?

Thanks so much for your help…littlealm

All this in-store lie-board fitting to determine if your club should be up to a massive (!) 2 degrees upright or flat is bullshit IMO. Just a marketing play to make you feel confident to purchase. Put golf shoes on, it all changes. Fluffy fairways, you sink in, it changes, ball sitting up or down, it all changes. Plus you never get a dead flat conditions on the course like in the fitting bay. You’ll have a 1 degree change in lie out on the course with a 3-iron simply if the ground rises a mere 9mm between your feet and the ball. 9-iron, 6mm. It’s rare that a 3 iron is needed off the fairway anymore anyway, so teeing up then changes everything. On those beliefs, I see no reason to make small adjustments but rather to do 5 degrees straight off and let it suck me into a flatter plane.

Spot on posts guys…
I usually sound like a broken record on this topic…

You can go 6 flat no problem. I have my personal spec sheet posted in the equipment forum.

Tonight, this record skips to the next post!

How about flattening the driver? I looked at Lag’s specs but I don’t understand the lie angle.

Also, does the ABS system elminate the need for hybrids even out of the rough? Thanks…littlealm

There should be a bunch of excellent posts in the equipment thread littlealm that will help you with these thoughts…
https://forum.advancedballstriking.com/t/how-to-flatten-a-persimmon-driver/644/1 has some nice ideas and discussion

It is quite amazing to put one of today’s recent drivers next to a 90’s metal wood and then also a persimmon wood…there is a huge progressive difference in the lie angle as the years go by.
Today’s clubs are unfortunately designed for the hacker-- upright and lightweight…so they can slap at it with their hands and get some clubhead speed and every now and then connect with a shot that makes them think they are jack Nicklaus
The older clubs are all about promoting correct flatter plane technique and acceleration with the body and not a slapshot because of their flatter pivot enhancing angles and weight – the better shots will become easier and more often
Alas you will be hard pressed to find any of today’s clubs with the makeup we want to encourage the correct action to make golf easier on a day to day basis…however using the older equipment which improves your swing will then make you be able to hit most of today’s beasts even better once the technique has evolved