No wonder why every elderly person today who was around in those days and witnessed golf like that is disgruntled with the state of todays game.
Watched round 2 of the accenture last night, I’m not exaggerating but some of the iron shots from perfect fairways with no wind were missing by 20 yards. It’s disgusting. It’s actually come to a point where it’s surprising when a pro (especially Tiger) hits a fairway with a driver.
I love the tour and love watching the events but it’s getting so boring watching chipping and putting contests every week.
No wonder why every elderly person today who was around in those days and witnessed golf like that is disgruntled with the state of todays game.
Watched round 2 of the accenture last night, I’m not exaggerating but some of the iron shots from perfect fairways with no wind were missing by 20 yards. It’s disgusting. It’s actually come to a point where it’s surprising when a pro (especially Tiger) hits a fairway with a driver.
I love the tour and love watching the events. I get so excited each Thursday to watch the week’s tournament.
The 2 reasons being:
To see amazing golf which leaves me awestruck, like a guys knocking the pin down with a 3 iron under tournament pressure.
To see golf swings better than mine which produce these shots so I can learn from them.
I DO NOT watch golf to see guys hitting sand wedges from light rough into every par 4.
And I DO NOT watch golf to see a chipping and putting contest.
I don’t think anyone does.
Come Sunday I’m always pretty disappointed from having learned nothing and not seen anything special.
But the hope will always be there for next weeks tournament
Any golfer who started playing in the last 20 years is not likely to have a proper reference for great ball striking. My standards are high. I played on tour and while I considered myself a better than average tour player and ball striker… there were guys that hit it better than I did… no doubt. I also don’t believe I was playing in the best era of ball strikers either. Hogan and Nelson obviously inspired one another growing up near one another and their swings were very similar. Hogan inspired many such as Trevino and Knudson.
While we don’t have year long stats from back then, we do have witnesses even alive today with direct and personal knowledge of what they saw. We have footage such as the Shell’s shows. Those guys were at such a more sophisticated level of ball striking it’s not worth even wasting my fingers typing much more about it.
Knudson hit 69 out of 72 greens at The 1969 Masters. This has been verified. That’s just a hair under 96% of the greens for the week in a major championship. THAT is GREAT BALL STRIKING.
When I won on tour I hit 67 out of 72 greens. That’s 93% for the week. It wasn’t Augusta, but it was a Donald Ross track with persimmon and blades and less than perfect fairways. I had to dig a few shots out of divots and hit off summer hardpan from the fairways. I know Billy Ray Brown and Jim Benepe were better ball strikers than I was. I played a lot of golf with those guys.
Hogan showed us 100% fairways and 100% GIR in the Shell’s match. Did he do this everyday? No. Was this some fluke round, a career best? Of course not. It was not all that uncommon for Hogan to hit all the fairways and greens during a round of golf. Tour players would stop their own practice to watch him hit balls. How good would someone have to hit it today on the range for today’s tour players to stop and watch in awe? It’s not happening. Moe was that good also on the range. I saw it… I NEVER saw anyone hit the ball on a driving range that good in my life… not even close.
Now I am talking about BALLSTRIKING… not playing golf and scoring. Different things.
The question was…
“Are there any great ball strikers today?” My answer?
NO!
If today’s touring pros had to play tight courses with long rough off less than perfect fairways with a high spinning balata ball off persimmon… and putt on greens like the tee boxes they are teeing off on now… it would be a VERY humbling experience for them. If they had to pull a long iron four times a round off the fairways into real par 4’s… it would be a big wake up call.
Average number one ranked GIR %
1980 - 1989. 72.54%
1990 - 1999. 72.69%.
2000 - 2009. 72.87%.
2010 - 2011. 72.09%.
USPGA Tour.
Guys, the fact is that despite
Shorter rough (almost non existent)
" Better" Space-age equipment
Superb course conditions so the guys are hitting off consistently perfect fairways
Bigger crowds and hospitality tents so the ball often gets stopped from going deeper into trouble
Laser technology so distances are measured perfectly to the inch in the yardage book
Professionalism (sports psychologists, physical trainers,variety of statistics)
Hitting short irons into every par 4 (the only time long irons are used is on par 5s)
Video analysis (including trackman radar statistics)
The list can probably go on and on…
the ball striking has clearly gotten worse as GIR hasn’t changed.
If you could go back in time and give a man in 1980 that list of things and ask " With all those advances in the game what do you think the state of the game will be in 30 years time?"
The answer would probably have been - " Hitting every fairway and every green and guys tapping in for birdies. Putting won’t be important anymore."
Then you would say " and there are going to be space age golf balls called “rocketballz” and guys wearing hearts on their caps saying driver love"
Then he would say - " Get the fuck out."
Miller was an awesome striker when he was “ON” in his prime… and his best striking was with a set of early 1950’s very heavy Tommy Armour Silver Scots that were over 20 years old at that time. Not unheard of for guys in the 1980’s to be playing a heavy persimmon from the 50’s. Greg Norman used a 1950’s MacGregor M60 persimmon driver… if I remember right, well into the 80’s
These guys used this gear for a reason. It was great gear to hit the ball straight and control shot shaping. No coincidence.
I just watched a Shell’s match from probably the early 90’s. Nicklaus vs Watson playing Pebble. I think maybe one green was missed on the front nine between the two of them and every fairway was hit. 32 and 33. On the back nine they were hitting long irons off sidehill lies and wind into #10 and #11… and just rocketing these irons in there. What a thing of beauty. The rough was really thick… not set up like the tour event does now. It was US Open stuff… like how US Open rough used to be.
Nicklaus was still hitting persimmon. Watson had an old school metal wood that just played the same as persimmon back then.
They shot 69 70. Made it look easy. If Mickelson were out there spraying it around like he did… he would have shot 75. The greens were just not good enough for him to roll in 160 feet worth of 20 foot putts.
The general golfing public has very low standards for what they think is great.
I think Johnny Miller would agree with you John i saw this quote from Cog Hill tournament last year when alot of players were complaining about the Rees Jones redesign.
At one point during Saturday’s broadcast, NBC analyst Johnny Miller weighed in on the Cog Hill debate. As always, he made his feelings crystal clear.
“Anybody who complains about this course,” he said, “needs to have his head examined.”
After leaving the booth Sunday, Miller told the Tribune: “The guys who complained were the ones who weren’t hitting it good. They deserved to do lousy.”
Top-five finishers Luke Donald and Geoff Ogilvy left no doubt they don’t fancy the 2008 Rees Jones redesign, but the loudest voices in opposition were Phil Mickelson, who tied for 56th, and Steve Stricker, who withdrew after the second round because of neck pain.
“Almost every guy who finished at the top of the leaderboard was in the top five in greens hit and ball-striking,” Miller said. “To me, that’s the ultimate. That’s pure golf, not a bunch of scrambling crap.”
Miller likened Jones to a necktie that falls out of favor after a few years.
“Rees came into vogue, and everybody liked him at first,” Miller said. “If there’s any (valid) criticism, it’s all these bunkers that look like a jigsaw puzzle and all these little fingers (in the green) that kill you. But if you hit a bad shot, you get penalized. So I think it’s a good golf course.”
To me, ‘pure golf’ doesn’t really favor any style of play. It favors those who play the best.
So, it doesn’t favor the weaker ballstriker who putts it well. It favors the weaker ballstriker who putts it well who happens to strike the ball much better than they usually do. It doesn’t favor the bomb-n-gouger. It favors the bomb-n-gouger who hits the ball more accruately and precisely than they usually do and makes a few putts.
Power should be reward to a degree.
IMO, if you can bomb a driver 350 yards while the average for the field on that hole is 280 yards, you should not HAVE to find the fairway to be rewarded. If you can bomb that 350 yard drive and find the first cut of rough or maybe just go into the 2nd cut of rough, you should be rewarded to a degree. But, when you have guys putting it into the trees or even into another fairway and facing almost no consequence, that’s not pure golf.
Neither is anything that favors the ballstriker who can’t make a putt to save their life. To me, ‘pure golf’ favors the ballstriker who can’t putt to save his life when he actually gets a few putts to drop…or he happens to really strike the ball so well that he’s knocking more shots so close that any player can make it.
This is why I feel they have ruined the Masters. It was not too long ago that the tournament really didn’t favor any style of play that much more than the others. Guys like Crenshaw, Olazabal, Weir (when he was playing well), Langer, Faldo, Mize, etc…not long hitters, some had great short games, some were relly good ballstriekrs…all had a fair shot at winning a green jacket. These days ANGC is more like part Re-Max Long Driving and Trick Shot Championship.
I still love playing the game, even with the new equipment. But my enjoyment of watching the game on TV has waned because it’s not really as competitve and diverse as it used to be.
I’m just really talking about the ball striking part of things. Scoring and winning tournaments is another matter.
Personally I would rather be a great ball striker than a great putter… mainly because the majority of the time while walking around the course I am thinking about the ball striking aspect. Tee shots and approach shots are consuming the majority of my thoughts as I walk around. If I can just putt decent, I can score just fine and once in a while I will get hot and shoot low.
I feel I am going to hit the ball pretty good every time I tee it up. Not too often am I going to go out and not be able to hit a green… in the way I might not be able to make a putt.
If I was only a great putter, I am going to have to putt great all the time. It’s not as likely that I am going to suddenly start knocking pins down with a poor golf swing. Especially without hitting balls or practicing much or at all.
Great putters are also more reliant upon the condition of the greens. If they have to putt on poor greens… they will still make more putts than an average putter… but not nearly as many. It really takes them out of their rhythm when suddenly 10 footers are not gimmies anymore. But on the other hand… a poorly manicured golf course favors the better ball striker even more, because they will have the shot arsenal to dig the ball out of bad lies and still be able shape the ball from less than perfect conditions.
I always love it when I would show up at an event and see bad greens and lots of bare patches out on the course with scraggly rough. Bad weather is another thing I liked… and especially high winds. The poor ball strikers are just cooked.
Lag mentioned Billy Ray Brown, he grew up at a club about 20 minutes from me. It went under a few years ago, but the city it is located in bought it to save the home values and put a bunch of money into it. now it is a very solid 36 hole muni. it hosted the houston open a couple of years in the 70’s. tight
fairways with ob on both sides on alot of holes. a real shotmakers course. not the prettiest course around but a tough track.
i never knew he was regarded as a great ball striker on tour but i would believe it since he grew playing at this course. if memory serves me correctly he was probably the last great golfer to come out of the houston area, or Jeff Maggert.
With his current and growing comfort with his swing changes, his putter coming alive a bit more and his excessive knowledge of how to play Augusta, I see Tiger winning the 2012 Masters. He is peaking at just the right time, playing much more in long while (last time he committed to three events in row?) . Tiger has been able to top-10 that place {Augusta} the past two years while under complete dis-array in personal life and swing comfort. Shooting a 62 on soggy tough Honda Classic course that you have last played as an amateur was a message to rest of PGA.
I have noticed Tiger FINALLY coming into his own with this new Foley swing. Melding parts that work for him with parts of his younger self and scraping the other stuff. He has definitely moved away from the embarrassing dramatic stack-tilt body positions of leaning towards target at top of backswing we saw him rehearsing much of 2010-11. From face-on he is back to a more traditional ‘reverse-k’, just not as pronounced. From down-the-line he is much more steeper in ascent/descent than under Hank plus the rehearsed OTT ‘anti-stuck move’ is probably biggest FEEL change for him (because he for sure does not come down that much out in real swing). I also have read Foley himself, at Chevron in Dec, says they don’t work much on full swing anymore because Tiger has got it by now and is incorporating his own style to it.
Now of course his distance control seems to be off many times and could be because of so steep combined with too much down into impact (HUGE divots at times, even with 3w)? And he still can’t put together a full weekend. But going home to Augusta his confidence will soar more than it has in past three months. Bodog has Tiger at 11:2 odds and I may drop a little cash on him.
Ya Budman I agree with alot of what you’re saying. Definitely getting better.
I just feel his ballstriking is still not impressive. He complains about putting but he’s knocking nothing stiff. And I’m sorry but that shot on 18 was a 20 yard block. Great result, but no ways he was thinking of landing it there.
There are just 2 things for me.
First - His allignment. He aims his feet too far left on the majority of shots. Look out for that on the broadcast.
Second thing I literally am stumped by his choice too set up so far over the ball with his hands so low. Look at the picture I’ve posted. Not such great pics but they don’t need to be.
Honestly the tour is lucky Tiger appears to be handicapping himself. If he sets up to the ball better I would bet my life on it the improvement would be dramatic.
Tiger will win soon again the look in his eyes is back … maybe not for 4 full rds but anyone who has won as much as he has is due credit. He’s swinging more left after impact then before the rehearsal swings and the real swing haven’t matched up yet but they will… nothing wrong with aiming left and blocking shots into the target its better than fore left which still haunts him. The biggest improvement is the driver he’s in the fairway more.
Nothing wrong with low hands at adresse Fuzzy comes to mind not a bad career there or Aoki or Green i wouldn’t teach a high handicapper low hands with upright equipment.
Setup dosen’t guarantee ball striking improvement… yes certain things can be overdone and one has to have a couple of things in place but Tiger is in balance on all swings.
Very seldom is the Masters won by the hottest player or the # 1 player its always won the back nine Sunday at Augusta Tiger is a frontrunner but who knows.
