Thoughts on Ben Hogan

Ben Hogan was cryptic as all know in his writings, but did this to make sure that players were focused. Did a search and many on the internet have discussed this. Important anyway and have not read it here. Hogan speaks in the 3rd person about supination, something to the effect of the left wrist supinates through impact instead of the 1st person instructing players to supinate the left wrist through impact. Actively supinated is a cause, supinating without him telling us to is an effect of something earlier in the swing.

youtube.com/watch?v=V6GMQGk8Qk4

This gives an idea as to how this happens as an effect. Module 3 students may question the way the club is trained post impact from a still position and still end up with a swing made to strike as the greats did. Intention is everything as you are trained, the wrist are trained to do as Hogan says through module 1,2, and 3 training as the result of a correct swing, not as a cause of a correct swing. Nothing new, shows students how well thought out the modules are.

Nick is ABS all the way…
watch that video 100 times… rinse and repeat.

I have been wondering why Hogan did that trigger finger thing? (You know! He grabbed the grip with his right hand like he was shooting the ground with a pistol). What are the advantages and disadvantages to doing that?

Thanks

Mt, you will feel pressure in the trigger finger when the shaft is flexing backwards as the club is accelerating. When acceleration stops, the pressure stops. The weak grip he had on the club allowed for maximum forearm rotation, giving him the ability to pressure the shaft longer.

What do you think about this guys observation on Hogan?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3lpCPIhgcU[/youtube]

I don’t know if this has been mentioned already.

The August 2013 edition of Golf Digest has some quotes from an interview of Ken Venturi that occurred in 2004. Venturi talks about Mr. Hogan and a couple of things stand out, but this really caught my eye.

From the Article: Venturi speaking

Hogan to this day is perceived as having a precise, mechanical, repeating swing that never varied. It’s not true at all. When Jules Alexander sent me a bunch of photographs he’d taken of Hogan and asked me to analyze them, I was amazed by all the different follow-throughs Ben displayed. The follow-through is like a blue print; it tells you what went on earlier in the swing. With the irons, everyone of Ben’s follow-throughs was slightly different. He was a tremendous shotmaker who made all sorts of small adjustments to make the ball fly high and low, curve to the left or right, spin or not spin when it hit the green and so on.People think of him as a scientist, when he really was a great artist.” [Guy Yocum, Ken Venturi - Golf Digest, August 2013]

Many thought of Mr. Hogan as the mechanical man. Many others consider him a great ball striker. Almost everyone will admit he was one of the greatest ever. To the greats of the game he was all that and more, they understood that Mr. Hogan was indeed a true artist. The likes of which the game may never see again.

How I wish I could develop 1% of the game that Mr. Hogan had. To know how to hit all the shots. To be an artist with the club.

That’s the stuff dreams are made of!

baloney.jpg

1 Like

Just to clarify, of course there’s pieces of truth there. The slot, shangri la… uh, great, ok… What about the club face again? Shut it early? What’s happening with the wrist cock? Too much zeroing stuff out, seems like oversimplifying some pretty important shit. What he seems to be demonstrating is shut it and hold-hold-hold, as opposed to open firing square and re-opening post impact.
I mean, it’s fine and everything. I don’t really care one way or the other, and I’m sure he can hit the ball fine like that. And I’m also not saying I can do it myself. I am workin’ on it though. But does anyone look at this dude’s swings and think, ‘oh yeah, all Hogan right there…’? I guess I’m just not seeing it.
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^^^ Looks nice though. It obviously isn’t flipped shut.

This video makes me think of module 6, shaft goes under plane and the club face opens. This guy is saying to do module 6 but instead of having the club face open into module 1 he rotates it closed earlier. That is not the key to Hogan, the key is the thrust he created through and post impact with modules 1, 2, 3. The key is the pivot, like Lag has said the entire time. Without the pivot thrust, neither is good. What is says is good in relation to how good the pivot is, somebody with a slow pivot thrust will shank every shot the way he explains. If the arms control the club then thrust is lost and no longer talking Hogan. It will not work without the cut left that is created by shallow entry, anchored feet, and increasing post impact body speed. It always comes back to the pivot. The guy has a good pivot but not a Hogan pivot, it will work better for him than opening the club on the way down because he does not have NEAR the post impact pivot Hogan did.

Module 8 is from an open club face for a reason, it is easy from this closed position. Module 8 specifically test post impact speed and rotation, it is the only thing that will square the club face at impact. If module 8 was from closed position it would not require post impact speed and rotation, the club is rotated early and speed would only be required up to impact because the club is squared early. Might work for him and not a bad way to play but not the secret. Do not think anyone will KNOW the secret until they hit it on the level of Hogan. His name is not either Norman, Knudson, Trevino, Jones, Faldo, Price, Snead, Nelson. On top of that if he was applying the secret he would be compressing the ball to a level that would not allow it to go offline often, the acceleration and incredible ball speed would not allow the side spin of the ball to affect flight until it reached its apex and momentum stopped. Then the ball would fall left or right depending on side spin.I do not mean holding shaftlex, that is not a secret. The secret is how he consistently held shaftflex.

This is like a guy without a million dollars saying he knows the secret to making a million dollars, if he knew he would have a million dollars. The guy without a million dollars and without the secret to make a million dollars will make a million dollars from people that believe he knows the secret to make a million dollars, wanting to make a million dollars. All the books written about the secret were after Hogan died for a reason, he would not approve and would not allow them to print. It was Hogan himself that is the reason that celebrities of any type now have the rights over name, likeness image etc. Those writers can say they want to help golfers with publishing the secret, if they want to help give the secret anonymously. Have not seen that, which leaves only self serving reasons such as fame, money, credit, recognition, image, legacy. You know all those things Hogan worked for.

This guy is not just like the Hogan secret authors and has not written a Hogan secret book, but that did not stop him from saying he knows Ben Hogans secret. Maybe he does not want money at all or maybe not now, just youtube views. He could have said it was his secret, but nobody is typing his name in the search. They are typing in Ben Hogan, which he is on the first page of. Just saying do your own work, do not piggyback. If you have the secret prove it just like Hogan did. Nobody would want his secret if he didn’t go on to hit the ball better than anyone ever, winning many tournaments. Hogan didn’t put out a books explaining the golf swing before he hit it better than anyone, he he hit it better than anyone ever, THEN he wrote books on how because it had been proven. Hit it like Hogan consistently and people will be typing this guys name. But just like every Hogan secret guy this guy does not hit it like Hogan and will not be viewed for his world class, tournament tested, 30+ year in the making greatest ever ball striking. Takes too long, too much work, just do it the easy way and use HIS NAME, it comes with all the great things HE DID without having to do what HE DID. This guy wouldn’t go to a minor league baseball player to learn to hit it like Ken Griffey Jr., he would go to Griffey Jr. If the minor league player knew how to hit it like Griffey Jr. he would not be a minor league player. If you HAVE IT you can PROVE IT by DOING IT. If this guy or any of the secret authors knew the secret they could only prove this by hitting it like Hogan, since none have none know. If the world operated like these authors then a guy that says he knows how to perform open heart surgery would write the book on how to do it without ever having performed open heart surgery. He would just tell people now because he figured it out but had not done it himself. Obviously thats dumb, and no one would learn from him. Its dumb for the same reason it is dumb to listen to these secret authors that have not hit the ball like Hogan, they just figured it out and want to teach people how to do it. Did not see any of the author names up their with Tiger on PGA leaderboard, none on European, none of Web.com, none on any of the 100s of smaller tours around the world. You would think at least of them knowing the secret would be on some tour or famous for ball striking alone. Moe was famous up to his death without tour events, but none of them. Go figure.

Publishing is not a non profit business, meaning it is profit motivated. All businesses are for profit unless classified differently. The publisher and the author are doing this for money. They know people will buy because they want a quick fix and that is not their fault. Their fault is using Ben Hogan to sell books, without permission. The information in all the books is in power golf and 5 lessons written by Ben Hogan, the rest is either made up or unconfirmed by Hogan himself. Does not matter, the name sells. If any of the authors would have put their names with the secret with no mention of Hogan they would not be authors. Ben Hogan is synonymous with ball striking prowess, perfection, tireless work ethic, attention to detail, focus, and planning. This sells because he did it, not the authors. You do not have to listen to me, get it from Hogan himself. Go to the site, he thought is was wrong to profit off of someones fame without permission and his fight is the main reason for image protection.If they knew the secret they would hit it like Hogan and be famous for Hogan level ball striking, then they would write a book about how well they hit the ball and people would buy. They do not, instead profit off of a legendary mans legacy but not while he is alive. ONLY after he is dead and can’t fight back.

linksmagazine.com/best_of_go … -9-14-2012

Maybe this guy should have checked before revealing to the golf world what he thinks is the secret is that has been discussed and not new. Hogan said to shallow the plane himself, and he said to create a bowed left wrist into impact with left wrist supination. After that internet forums have discussed much with pictures along with books for years. Not saying they are right as there are some different theories I do not think make sense, just they wrote about the same thing. Interesting reads.

He left out an important part about firing once in the early close position, he may not be able to fire fast enough to close the face at impact but Hogan would have with this guys more upright plane. Hogan would have hit the ball left if his swing was like this guys, but it was not. Hogan had a flatter, shallower approach with the club coming from more behind him which was necessary because the post impact pivot was continuous and accelerating around creating the epic cut left.

jeffygolf.com/showthread.php?240 … ecret-quot

“I guess this explains what I observed in the Tale of Two Hogans article I wrote earlier in the year: that 1947 Power Golf Hogan had a pronated left forearm and flat left wrist coming into impact, whereas post-accident Hogan had supinated early and had bowed his left wrist by then, reflective of the “secret”:”

jeffygolf.com/showthread.php?194 … ight-Elbow

“Jim pieced it together this way. Everyone knew that in the “This is My Secret” article Hogan stated that the “secret” included three pieces: a slightly weakened grip, early clockwise rotation of the forearms in the backswing (what Hogan called in the article “pronation”, because, anatomically, when the left forearm rotates clockwise it is “pronating”), and a cup in the left wrist at the top of the backswing. Hardy also found significant another element that was often omitted when the “secret” was described: in the downswing, the forearms were rotated as hard as possible counter-clockwise, closing the clubface, but, according to the article, because of the other three adjustments, the face would never quite be shut at impact.”

jeffygolf.com/showthread.php?56- … ght=hogans

golfwrx.com/forums/topic/125 … -clubface/

“Regarding Ben Hogan, I may be all wrong, but I believe Tom Bertrand in his …‘Secrets…’ book stated that (for a ‘standard’ shot) while Hogan had a cupped left wrist (‘open’ at the top), his first move down (not including the lower body move that initiated the downswing) was to uncup the left wrist-undo the ‘twist’ that he made during the takeaway and straighten or slightly bow the left wrist which would square or slightly ‘close’ the clubface to the swing arc, then he could simply rotate his body thru impact without any excess arm or hand rotation and hit that slight fade, effectively blocking out the left side of the course.”

An ABS Student emailed this to me today. I haven’t read this book, but it sounds like an interesting read. Here are a couple quotes from the book about his driver.

Very good book, there is one previous that Martin Davis was involved in that Hogan liked called The Hogan Mystique. Is a photo album

Not sure if this has been posted before here, but came across this the other day which is a nice video. Looks like both shoes had the extra spike.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjTM4dUOAZI[/youtube]

hogan_spike2.jpghogan_spike.jpg

There is a shoe repair shop near Mare Island. I might stop in there and ask the big question.

hogan_spike.jpghogan_spike2.jpg
I can understand the extra spike on the right shoe:
Right_Foot.jpg

But the extra spike on the left shoe?

Any thoughts?

If I don´t practice or play like now in the summer - my footwork goes sloppy…
No anchoring (marrying with the ground), “live tension” or torquing after a layoff in my legs…

Chris

Ha ha, so I will answer it by myself!
Hogan_Feet_2 small.jpg
Hogan_Feet_1 small.jpg

Yup, he needed it on the left shoe as well…
Eversion on the right, inversion on the left…

Chris

Been reading Power Golf and looking back over 5 Lessons. Mr. Hogan states in both books that the downswing is initiated by the turning of the hips.

George Knudson talks about weight shift happening simultaneously as rotation in his book “The Natural Golf Swing.” George Knudson also talks about the weight in to the right foot, Mr. Hogan does not mention this, but it appears he may do this

Would you guys say that Mr. Hogan and George Knudson are describing the same move to initiate the down swing, rotation of the hips left, using slightly different feels and/or words?

How does this coincide with ABS teachings?

Good one Chris. :slight_smile: