Not sure if this guy has found this website yet, but i feel we or someone needs to give him heads up about ABS if hes putting this much effort into this. To try to visually copy a swing with no other instruction is a very long journey and you be lucky if you get anywhere close to boot.
I use to try and copy swings in detail (not this extent), but i gave up because as we have learned here at ABS, a good golf swing is a vapor trail of true intentions thru opposing forces and such. With out that knowledge, you will be going in circles with low percentage rate of success.
I sent him a quick message on youtube tonight, hopefully this will open his eyes.
If this person already found this website, how are you coming along??
He has an extensive thread over at SITD. One problem that he will have is that he can copy all the positions in the world, but you can never see the internal pressures and feelings in someones golf swing, we all swing different for many reasons.
Thanks for the invitation Brandon. Like I mentioned in the YouTube PM, I have knowledge of the ABS forum but haven’t really browsed yet. I have lots of respect for John and like what he teaches, but as you can see on my YouTube page, I’m taking a different route in rebuilding my swing. I’m a hobbyist and experimenter. I got into the game in 2007 and used golf magazines to build my swing back then. My old swing wasn’t all that bad and I probably could have gotten to scratch if I had stayed with it, but in 2011 I was researching and experimenting with S&T. While searching for S&T vids, I came across a Hogan compilation vid. So, I said, hmmmmm, I like that swing…think I’ll see if I can get mine close to that style. I had no idea who the dude was and had no idea that he was a dominating force in the 50’s and 60’s. Lol, I just never heard of his name. This goal is purely aesthetic. I have no care or concern of ball striking or trajectory or distance or any of that. If I can consistently shoot in the 90’s from the white tees, I’m happy. I’ve been at the project for about a year now. Lots of guys take what I’m doing waaaaay to serious. This is nothing but pure fun and excitement for me!
When I first got into all this, I didn’t think much of it, except that I would be mimiking a golf swing, that happened to be of Hogan…heck, it could have been any golf swing. I’ve learned so much about what goes on in a swing its unbelievable. I’m learning something new every day. Not sure when or if I’ll get this all finished, but I’ll let you know if it was or was not possible when I’m finished.
Remember, Hogan was a persimmon purist. People love to forget that for their own convenience, but he never hit metal woods or cavity backs. I can’t imagine trying to replicate his action without the first five main ingredients. Persimmon and blades set up with super flat lie angles, super heavy dead weights, and super stiff steel shafts.
Get those into the mix and you will have a very good start on how the body must react to move those kind of masses around the body on a flatter swing plane than most.
Most modern drivers I have seen sit upright about 64 to 66 degree lie angles.
Can’t get to Hogan doing that. Nope… and don’t let anyone tell you any different.
Get your lie angle with a driver under 50 degrees… and get out your postage scale and beef that driver up to at least 14 ounces. Drop a steel shaft tipped at least 4 inches into that driver head and you’re in the game.
I don’t think learning the basics of Hogan’s action is nearly the undertaking people think if they have a proper understanding, a bit of dedication, and a legible road map.
Is Mike or any of the guys over at SITD helping you out on your pursuit? Mike has a good handle on the stuff.
Thanks John. The equipment details you mention are my next focus. I’m not working with anyone yet…still want to wander about through the woods for a while so I can keep finding failure…this style of learning helps me a lot. But there will be a point when I get tired and frustrated enough to get a lesson from someone that actually knows what they are doing…cause I don’t lol, but that’s the fun part of all this.
Lol, B, I don’t know what you see, but I am nowhere near it yet. I wear a newsboy hat; that probably fools you. There are numerous issues with my swing. Ball goes either straight or 5-10 yard fade, but I don’t really focus on the ballstriking part right now. I’ve never hit a draw, except by accident. Don’t know how to do it yet. I’m not even sure where the ball goes in my stance, meaning that I am making contact, but not sure if its in the center of the face and that type of stuff. Not gonna be concerned about contact and flight until I am satisfied with a few of the Hogan “absolutes.”
Interesting idea, BHP. The one thing you can absolutely take from John and the ABS philosophy is that your ball-striking will really love it if you spend as much time mimicking Hogan’s post-impact moves as you do his pre-impact positions. Then you’ll really be swinging it like Hogan.
The more critical angle to study is the DTL view. This shows how you are slotting the club… how shallow your entry is…
how hard you are working the shaft left post impact, right arm action… and you get a good view of the foot action.
Dump and roll releases can look great from a caddy view.
I’m nowhere near being able to work on slotting. That will be in a few months I hope. Still researching, experimenting, and understanding the takeaway and upswing action.
Slotting is like everything. The whole thing is based upon how he superslotted the club. When you learn to get the shaft flat and low, coming out of the right hip pocket, then you’ll learn how much work lies ahead with the inner dynamics of an accelerating torso rotation post impact and strong forearm rotation to work the shaft from the 3rd dimension back to square on the ball.
When you get that… you’ll get all those lovely Polaroid’s that everyone will go “wow”. The positions are just vapor trails of the inner dynamics.
LOLOL! Newman, I feel your pain man! lol. As I’m thinking back at all the times I told someone what the project was all about, that’s the exact response I always get. But you left part of my quote out…I do want to consistently shoot in the low 90’s from the white tees on any course, so ballstriking might be a little important, but no need for it to be like a pro or anything. I play the game for casual fun.
In all honesty, I wish you the best of luck. No need to defend your motives, everyone has different reasons for playing.
If you haven’t found it yet, make sure to check out the “Thoughts on Ben Hogan” thread: viewtopic.php?f=211&t=34
50+ pages of Hogan-related stuff to ponder.
Welcome to the forum!
Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve made a few changes to my equipment and I’ve been working on a few homemade drills. I’ve officially tossed the metal clubs. Not in the trash, but in the corner. Now working with only wooden clubs. Bought a couple of stiff steel shafted 3 and 5 woods. The 3W has an old jumbo rubber wrap grip on it. I reeeeeealy like the feeling of the jumbo grip. Never thought I would like it. Thought it would be too big.
Played a round last week at Alfred Tup Holmes with Dad, Terrell, and Bruce. They all play with all new-school modern stuff. They ragged me alllllll day about my clubs lol. They all got up to the tee and made the “cling” sound, while I made the “knock” sound. Plus most times I was always shorter than everybody else. The most fun part about the day was on hole #17 which is an over-the-cliff shot. it’s about a 260 yard hole. I “luckily” drove the green (actually the right side fringe) and Bruce was all pissed cause I used a 1969 club with screws vs his nice shiny TaylorMade Burner driver. I must have hit it on the screw or something with that 3Wood cause it went much farther than usual. So of course the friendly argument started with him saying I got lucky with my wooden sh!t. So, I graciously handed my heavy a$$ed club over to him and said, “You can try it out…This old sh!t is a little harder to hit man…doesn’t have the same kind of sweet spot as your 460cc driver. I’m just lettin you know!!” Bruce’s ego said “a club is a damn club…” There was a group waiting behind us so he couldn’t back down in front of an audience. My Dad is telling us to move on cause we’re holding people up. He doesn’t like making scenes in public. Bruce teed it up and did his usual chicken swing. Swung as hard as he possibly could and hit it super fat with lots of dust and dirt everywhere. The ball rolled down the hill and everybodys laughing real good. Perfect moment for a video camera!!! Next time one of those challenges goes down, he camera will be rolling. He tossed the club to me and laughed along with all of us and said “Man that club is stupid. That’s why they stopped makin them!” And to top it all off, I won by 1 stroke with a 99. I don’t even think Bruce gave me a handshake lolol! I’m thinking I could have shot in the low 90’s or high 80’s if I used irons. I don’t plan to pick those up till I’m satisfied with the woods. I do use a PW from 40 yds and in.
In the Take 34 vid, I’m doing 3/4 swings, experimenting with some left side stuff. The major issues I see are…errr…ummm… everything. My wrists are c0cking waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay early during the upswing, I still haven’t worked on the transition, head/upper body doesn’t stay back, and my hips are still moving too fast towards the target, or either my arms aren’t moving fast enough to catch up with the hips. Plus there’s probably some OTT and I can’t seem to remember to bring the left cup down. Most of these swings carried about 180-200yds either straight, fade, or pushed right. My major misses were topped shots that turned into real low line drives. Majority of the topped ones were without a tee. Still don’t know where to put the ball in the stance. Top priority in these range sessions is the mechanical aesthetic stuff.
I’m also doing some new stuff regarding my chipping and pitching. Feels like a body swing instead of arms and hands. Will get some video of it this weekend. I’m curious as to how it looks. Lol, probably doesn’t look anything like it feels. Will also get a video up of Bruce’s “unorthodox” swing. He hits it veeeery long even with a reverse pivot. His impact is what I am after. Right elbow bent and everything, but the visual intrepretation he provides isn’t for the weak stomached folks lol!
Getting ready to order some of those jumbo grips!! (Or maybe it is a mid sized with lots of tape or something??? May have to take it to a golf shop to find out.)
You have made a good decision working some with heavier persimmons. Hogan’s swing evolved from that gear. Next flatten them out and put some telephone poles in them. That will help the brain fire the correct neuron path for the BHSP.
Howdy,
Didn’t realize you are on ABS also. I remember seeing your thread on SITD and getting a good laugh.
Being a member, I’m hoping you are taking advantage of the knowledge shared here in helping your quest. As you’ve started this thread, I’m assuming you are looking for pointers? If not, excuse me but I will oblige (even if this isn’t your intention). What I notice is a nice take away but a very STEEP impact position. If this has already been pointed out by others, I apologize but this is what I’m seeing. One of the core fundamentals of ABS is a shallow impact with flat gear. Maybe it’s time to get some flatter sticks…
