I would like to say something about putting arcs…I think the arc that you swing a putter on (even the vertically oriented arc aka Pelz-style) is dependent on several variables. Length of the putter, the lie of the putter, hand position and of course distance from the ball. How can one arc satisfy all? Is it adjustable? I prefer the “low bench” approach. Homer Kelley mentioned it, but my guess is that the idea has been around for a long while. Find something that has a straight edge that is say 18 inches from the floor. allow the shaft to ride the fence. You will notice a slight arc the characteristics of which are dependent on the variables I mentioned (in addition to others that I may not have mentioned) My point here is that it is an arc specific to you and your putting style. Straight back straight through…fine. Wanna be a swinging gate…fine. The pictures I attached make an argument for being an old rusty gate! Lag mentioned in an earlier post that he prefers a stroke that starts to inside from the ball. The straight back and through folks say that ball position is less of a headache. Personally, I like to see my putter head arcing to the inside on the way back and them arcing to the inside on the way through. Straight back straight through feels too much like steering. So anyway, does anyone have specs as to the putter lies of players, prominent or otherwise? My putter is 35 inches and is 64*! A full 6.5 degrees flatter than how it arrived to me. 35 inches is actually pretty long for me as well. Based on wrist to floor measurements 34 inches is a fit. I know that George Lowe advocated heavy and flat, so did Bobby Locke, in fact Locke wanted heavy, long and flat.
Somewhat related aside: I watched Jack kicking the snot out of Miller in a Shell match on TGC. Coolest thing was to listen to the sound the ball made coming off Jack’s blade putter. A sharp licking sound. WoW!
I don’t get too overly concerned with the putting stroke. I used to play mini-tours with a friend who was easily the greatest putter I had ever seen. He was pretty much automatic to have less than 28 putts in a round, his problem was hit ballstriking was atrocious. And he had about the most haphazard stroke you’ll ever see. He had a WIDE OPEN stance, almost like Moe Norman with a driver…except he was doing it with a putter, very closed stance, big forward press, big backstroke and eased on the thru-stroke. He also clearly moved his head.
And he putted lights out.
I’m sure if you hooked him up to the SAM Puttlab you’d laugh at his results.
I still think having a good stroke is important, but to a much lesser degree than golfers give credit to.
According to SAM Puttlab, Loren Roberts cuts across the ball with his putting stroke. Yep, the ‘Boss of the Moss’ cuts across the ball.
As far as putting goes, I’m more interested in putters that allow me to aim better and then having a square putterface at impact. Edel Putters are designed to do that as they have a fitting process where they make changes to putterhead, hosel, alignment lines, etc until they get a putter combo that fits your eye. I absolutely agree that some putters golfers will naturally align better than others. That’s why I think using an 8802 or a Bullseye putter won’t equate to getting being a better putter quite like using vintage blade irons to improve your swing.
Putting is more important now than ever for low scoring. There are many ways to skin the cat though. I have watched Loren Roberts roll the rock in person. That blade seemed pretty square when the ball left it. Certainly not a Mayfair! He had the logo rolling end over end. I agree that a big part of putting is the ability to aim, or compensate for your aiming tendency (a function of optics etc) Back to Loren…I think he may have atendency to cut across his putts largely due to his upright putter. He then turns his left hand under (so-called hooding) with a little breaking of the left wrist (moves bent to flat) then counter turns his hands through the ball. He also whines a lot! I do not think a recreational golfer is well served with that type of stroke. Needs uber coordination in my opinion i.e. loads of practice.Too many people just take what looks good off the rack and then over time conform their motion to the implement. Sometimes that works out OK, but in many cases it does not. Any other thoughts, anyone?
Loren’s putter according to SAM Puttlab data is closed at address. However, at impact it was dead, 0.0* square, time after time.
Obviously, lining up square or as close as you can to square will provide an advantage to most people, but Loren Roberts shows that he doesn’t need it and while his stroke is very smooth looking, the dynamics of the stroke are something that IMO most people would greatly struggle with if they tried it. But he’s got a great feel for speed, he can read greens and he knows how to get that putterface dead square at impact. Not much more to putting than that.
I agree with you on that 3Jack. I found his stroke to have a lot of hand rotating. given that the face is closed at address it would seem that he does not hood it going back as much as I thought but no doubt has to open it on the way through. Amazing that it is so square at impact. He does roll it beautifully. Another cat that rolls his rock is Mark McNulty. From memory he may be a flat-stroker as well. Nicklaus says that he would alter how the face of the putter moved through impact depending on the putting surface. Fast bent - closed to open for a softer impact. Grainy bermuda - open to closed for a bit more hp! What the hell does he know anyway! I find that a flatter lie for a putter achieves the same “quiet face” that a flatter full swing helps achieve.
Talking about putter bearing little resemblence to irons. A moderately interesting story in that vain: I while back I played a small money game with a couple of sandbaggers. They picked the track. They picked an old CC (that no longer bared a resemblence to a CC. The greems were not bumpy as much as they were lumpy! Running about 6 on the stimp. Talking about 1920s style. This was their genius (practically an unbeaten twosome!) i.e. picking greens that to a “modern player” are unputtable. I carried a 2 hybrid back then (2 iron is back in the bag!) After a few putts on the living room carpet sized practice green I realized that 2 degrees of loft was not enough. So I pulled out the hybrid! Longish story shorter…they still took some of my cash BUT it was not a drubbing! I putted reasonably well, holing several nice putts and only missing once inside of 6 ft. and even the missed putt was a good effort. In addition to the benefits of the loft I noticed that the hook face of the hybrid (and length of the shaft of course) encouraged me to put the ball a bit back of lowpoint, and as was stated in earlier post treat the putt as just another golf stroke per Homer. I think modern putters (low lofted, upright and flat topped grips) encourage straight back straight through type strokes.
Just a passing thought on putting, I do believe that Isao Aoki
had the most geometrically sound putting stroke, which really plays
into this thread of flat vs upright. He had the flattest putting plane ever, and is considered by many to be one of the best of all time on the short grass. People thought he was crazy for his low hands-toe in the air method, I think it’s absolutely brilliant…. the work of a true genius. - Lag
I just found this post by Lag. Seems he has already made his opinion know about “flat putting!” Maybe I should just keep reading!
Seve was the same at the height of his powers. He was very hunched over with low hands and the toe in the air… very interesting. It’s cool to learn stuff from the naturals, they just go with what feels right and seeing as they’re so good their bodies tend to go where they need them. So much of learning is unlearning the crap you’re told is right by. I think the phrase should be “I unlearn something old every day”…
What’s a good swing weight for a putter. I currently have a Ping G2 Anser at 33". Right now it’s at C1 swing weight, which has been fine until I found out about it!
I’m reading that a heavier swing weight would give me more feel and help with distance control. I calculated that to get it to D1, I’d have to add nearly 22" of high density lead tape to it! Not sure that that is reasonable. I’m also reading that I could add tungsten, salt, etc. down the shaft, but I’d like to experiment with a few different weights before I do that.
I’m reading that Steve Stricker’s putter is at D2, and Lag has his putter up in the E’s. Does Al Barkow’s book address this? What does Geoff Mangum suggest?
Found a couple long responses to swing weight questions on Geoff Mangum’s forum, and he seems more concerned with total weight of the putter than swingweight.
Good video and I agree with his belief of using a heavy putter. Funny he mentioned 18.5 oz.
overall weight for a putter because that’s exactly what my Japan Corza 1 weighs, since I put
two 20g weights in the back ports. The faster the greens, the better I putt.
Seve and Watson were pouring sugar into their shafts back in the 70’s. Heavy putters are nothing new.
I think it’s a great idea for many of the same reasons why I suggest using heavier gear.
Our clubs get heavier (dead weights) as we get closer to the hole with our shorter irons and wedges… so why not the putter also?
I love the fact I can feel the clubhead… only playing once a week… (tomorrow!)
You will naturally grip the putter firmer in a natural attempt to gain control over the putterhead… and it is certainly harder to quickly over accelerate something heavier.
He had the logo rolling end over end. I agree that a big part of putting is the ability to aim, or compensate for your aiming tendency (a function of optics etc) Back to Loren…I think he may have atendency to cut across his putts largely due to his upright putter. He then turns his left hand under (so-called hooding) with a little breaking of the left wrist (moves bent to flat) then counter turns his hands through the ball. He also whines a lot! I do not think a recreational golfer is well served with that type of stroke. Needs uber coordination in my opinion i.e. loads of practice.Too many people just take what looks good off the rack and then over time conform their motion to the implement. Sometimes that works out OK, but in many cases it does not. Any other thoughts, anyone?
I find that a flatter lie for a putter achieves the same “quiet face” that a flatter full swing helps achieve.
Maybe I should just keep reading! 
