Moment of Inertia (MOI)

I know FlightScope utilizes acceleration profiles in their software, but I’m not sure how it works. I’m sure there are systems that will measure the clubhead speed post impact, but it doesn’t seem to be a priority as most systems, like the 6D MATT systems are more concerned with the rotation of different body parts in the swing. There is also the ENSO system, which runs for about $200K that measures the rate of closure of the clubface. Lastly, there’s the new Phantom camera utilized by Kelvin Miyahira out in Hawaii which is a super duper high speed camera. He’s been showing various shots on video at 40,000 fps which are really interesting. For instance, he showed a shanked shot from the bird’s eye view and the ball hits off the hosel and actually rolls up the face.

youtube.com/watch?v=VfdHTQi_ewc&feature=plcp

3JACK

I have tried that.

MOI matching can allow for graphite iron shafts to be used without having to make them longer. So why use graphite? Perhaps you have problems with your hands and wrists dealing with the shock of hitting a ball with a steel shafted iron.

But I asked Tom Wishon about clubhead speed and changing the club’s static weight and he said that the general rule of thumb is that 25 grams of static weight will change the clubhead speed by about 1 mph. When doing MOI matching, I have never come close to matching MOI of two clubs that are the same length, but have that vastly different static weight. I thinkt he closest I have come is about 12 grams. But,the lighter static weight club has much more weight in the head, so it really doesn’t feel uncontrollable.

3JACK

One should keep in mind that if you swing heavier gear, you will get stronger over time…
So while you would lose speed at first, you can get some of it back… and then reap the benefits of more mass through the strike.

I think I will make a winter-project out of MOI-matching my playing set.

I am wondering what is the point on the shaft (or grip) where the shaft and the proper rotational axis intersect. I am thinking that perhaps it is not the butt of the club. When considering my action through the ball, I am thinking it is the point where the left and right hand meet up, or thereabout.

Here’s a pdf to the MOI machine’s manual where it talks about how it works and the axis of rotation, etc.

golfsmith.com/pdf/pp_copy/24 … mation.pdf

Some of it will be oriented towards use of the machine, but other parts are informative.

3JACK

3jack
Just curious on your opinion
I did the quick and dirty MOI ( 1/2 inch shaft difference and 8 grams progressive)
Weighed each component and boy were the staff button heads all over the place, then added tungsten down the hosel.
And Yes I now have a 17oz PW

Is there a signifigant difference to Math MOI and the quick & dirty ?
If so, how important is the finite accuracy?

As I get older, rules of thumb from experts with experience is much more attractive to me than wiz bang math and pseudo science - that doesn’t make me right though LOL

Pippin

Just an update on some of this –

Some time last summer I built a set of Wishon irons for a friend of mine. He had some Mizunos and wanted to get MOI matched and fitted. I fitted him with his original Mizuno’s. When I fitted him for MOI I found that he had the same MOI as I have in my irons (2,725 kg/cm^2). He wanted to try a lighter shaft in hopes of gaining some distance. He was using a 133 gram Apollo shaft. We figured that as long as the shaft bend profile and MOI’s matched, we wouldn’t have a problem switching to a lighter shaft. The heft would be the same. I also MOI matched his Mizuno’s for free.

When he got the clubs built for him, he said he felt he was hitting the new irons better than his old non-MOI matched Mizuno’s. But, it was not as good as how well he hit the Mizuno’s when I finally MOI matched them. I then got it out of him that he went back to his old Mizuno’s and was very happy with how he was hitting them after they were MOI matched.

I asked him for both sets of clubs back. I re-measured them and everything came out like they should have. I then tried to hit both sets. I knew that his specs were a bit different from mine, but I should be able to hit them well. Well, I could hit the Wishon’s with the lighter shafts quite well. Didn’t hit the Mizuno’s with the heavier shafts all that great. I would have a tight impact dispersion, but I was more apt to miss low or high on the face (rather than towards the heel or the toe). They just felt overly heavy for me. When you measure the 5-iron swingweight to my MOI matched clubs, it comes out to D-5, so it’s not like I’m a total lightweight.

After that, I got some Edel wedges and noticed that their heads and shafts were too heavy for me. The MOI was the same. I then altered the shafts and had great success with the Lob Wedge. The Sand Wedge I think needs some weight taken off it.

Those experiences taught me that MOI matching is very effective, but to get the best ‘fit’ for clubs, you need to understand the weight of the main components (head, grip, shaft) and be able to determine the right combination based on the swing as well. My friend really cranks it on startdown and un-cocks his wrists much earlier in the downswing than I do with a more ‘float load-ish’ startdown and a late uncocking of the wrists.

I thought I was really onto something until I read on the Wishon site about a month ago with regards to what is called ‘MOI Balance Index.’ MOI Balance Index (MBI) is part getting the right combination of weight in the components and part the feel of the balance of the club. A clubmaker named Monte Doherty created a spreadsheet that is quite extensive and it calculates the Balance Index based on a variety of formulas and measurements.

After doing a lot of reading and examining Doherty’s spreadsheet, I saw that a large problem that causes the Balance Index to get out of whack is the shafts. Typically after the shaft is trimmed, it either gets a little lighter or virtually the same weight. The problem is when looking at the MOI Balance Index, the shorter clubs could use a heavier shaft and the lighter clubs a lighter shaft.

In fact, AeroTech has created a model of shafts called the ‘Player Spec’ which start off with a 96 gram 3-iron shaft and they get heavier in 2-gram increments.

This made a lot of sense to me as I have experienced (and others on this forum) that when a golfer utilizes swingweight matching, the longer irons feel too heavy and the shorter irons feel too light.

This is much better corrected when the golfer goes to MOI matching (progressive swingweight). However, there have been some complaints from golfers who got MOI matched that the long irons feel a tad ‘head light’ and the shorter irons feel a tad ‘head heavy.’

Looking at Doherty’s spreadsheet, he shows an example of his own clubs that he built. He needs to lower the Balance Index on his 9-iron and PW. This means that those clubs are too ‘head heavy.’ But, the way to properly reduce the ‘head heavy’ feel is to get a heavier shaft installed so the relationship between shaft and head weight alters to make the head feel lighter.

That’s what the ‘progressive shaft weight’ concept kicks in. The shafts get lighter in the longer irons to make the heads feel a little heavier while not making the overall club too heavy. Conversely, the heavier shafted short irons make the heads feel lighter without making the overall club too light.

The problem now is that only 1 company (that I know of) makes shafts that are in ascending weight. And AeroTech does not sell inexpensive shafts.

However, there was one clubmaker that gave a good suggestion for getting the MOI Balance Index to match when you need a heavier shaft.

Add lead tape to the shaft of the club.

I recently tried this as I assembled a Wishon 575MMC 7-iron together.

First and foremost, you still have to match the MOI. When I did this, I found that I needed about 2.8 grams more added to the shaft in order to get the MOI Balance Index where it needed to be.

I added it to the shaft and by inputting the new data in Doherty’s spreadsheet, the MOI Balance Index was in the range it needed to be (38-42). I tried the club out yesterday for the first time and it felt and performed great. Great trajectory and I don’t think the ball had more than a 2-yard fade or draw the entire practice session on the range.

Lastly, I also found that if you put the lead tape on the balance point of the club (on the shaft) it will alter the MOI. I actually had to put this lead tape up higher on the shaft up by the shaft label. It did not affect the balance point and it properly added weight to the shaft and drove the MBI to within the range I wanted it.

So far, so good. Up next I will be trying out this concept with my 3-iron and PW. But I think since I know that adding lead tape to the balance point of the club alters the MOI, I have a little more flexibility as to how much weight I want to add to the head and the shaft on the next club I try to execute this process on.

3JACK

3jack

This has got me thinking as I plan a new driver build out …

Would a 41" shaft with a 3" “plastic” extension give you more weight,
but not throughout the shaft -

Could thus help with some MOI build outs?
Vs
The lead tape option?

Avoid the plastic extenders - weak. Recommend graphite from a junk shaft or even real hickory or oak dowel - pretty light. Mike

Ok ok graphite
Whatever
The question about adjusting MOI still stands
Is a lighter (choose your favorite material) extension a reasonable way to adjust MOI without adjusting head weight?

You MOI will go higher (more heft) with an extension.

I’ll give you a ‘roundabout’ example.

I had a 45-1/8" driver. It weighed 321 grams and had a MOI of 2,825.

I wanted to trim the shaft to 44-3/8", taking about 3/4" off. I cannot remember the exact MOI, but I think it was around 2,675 or so.

In order to get a 44-3/8" driver with that particular shaft to an MOI of 2,825, I needed to get the static weight to 334 grams; 13 grams heavier than the 45-1/8" driver. Essentially, the shorter the club the heavier it has to get in order to match the MOI of the longer clubs. So, if you have the same weight and make a club longer…that increases your MOI.

What I’ve found is:

1-gram of weight added to head = 10-12 MOI points.

1-gram of weight added to balance point on shaft = 5 MOI points

The higher up the shaft you add lead tape, the less it affects the MOI. I have been using this ‘lead tape on the shaft’ process to match my MOI and my Balance Index. So far it has gone well.

3JACK