Lag,
I don’t know if I updated you, but back when I sent you that link to Huestis earlier in the year, I actually called them and spoke to one of their sales people. When I asked her about the availability Huestis Golf Ball winder, she replied:
“Is that still on the website? We haven’t manufactured that golf ball winder since the late 1990’s, there’s just simply no demand for wound balata golf balls”
Andy
I wouldn’t mind if the “old stuff” became popular again. The small sampling of persimmons and irons would last a few generations without needing a “new” set.
Besides, I’d rather see the game gain back some dignity than worry about keeping a secret for myself. Probably won’t happen now though - the djinni is out of the bottle.
Captain Chaos
It’s just a different world, couple weeks ago I was down in LA went over to El Cab for the day and I was totally lost out there without a lob wedge. I’d hit it to the same places I used to and I was just dead, no shot whatsoever. And God forbid I hit it over a green, looking at 20 ft by at best. And its not like that course has changed at all in 50 years, its always had brutally hard green complexes, but I don’t remember how to hit those kind of shots with anything other than a 60° wedge… Part of it is the heads, that Equalizer is a tragedy, complete disaster on anything under 100 yds, like trying to pitch with a wacked out 8 iron and that Sand Iron has way too much flange on the heel, nightmare for tight lies and soft pitches. I’ll try some different heads, I think a JP50 Wilson I was playing arond with a while ago would be a big step up from that wacky 10 iron E wedge and I got a ton of Sand Irons but the entire mentality has to change without the 60°… Changes everything, and the green complexes almost everywhere assume you’ve got it in the bag. The only tour player I know of that doesn’t play one is Olazabal and I don’t know how he does it.
Has someone written to Titliest or Maxfli to get say a thousand balls??
Macs,
I was dialouging for several months with a huge ball manufacturer in Korea that was basically willing to make me ANYTHING with a urethane cover…ANYTHING. 4 layer? no problem…custom compression? no problem, custom blended cover chemistry for extra softness or spin? no problem, proprietary dimple patter…again…no problem. They could basically do everything Titleist is currently doing, and in fact are making balls for Wilson and many others. The kicker was that they actually advertised balata balls on their website…so I thought “Here it is…the company that’s going to make these damn things for us…finally”.
So, after a few weeks of peaking their interest I inquired about making some wound Balatas. The conversation went something like this
Me: What about wound Balata balls…can we do those?
Them: No…machinery/tooling not available, raw materials not available and/or too expensive, too much labor, no demand…blah blah blah…same story EVERY manufacturer gives for not making Balatas.
At this point I am not buying the expense or demand argument. So I decided, I’ll just create a demand and see where the line in the sand is, so I replied:
What if I ordered a CONTAINER load…roughly 25,000 dozen balls. NOT 25,000 balls, 25,000 DOZEN balls …(300,000 golf balls).
The response: “Sorry, simply can’t do it…can we interest you in urethane?”
Amazing isn’t it?
It’s the time as much as the materials & machinery costs. It takes more than 5X as long, closer to 10X really to make wound balls. NOBODY is going to take that contract even if you offered 20X the price per unit because of the time factor involved in manufacturing. It ain’t gonna happen unless somebody wants to flush between $2-3 million right down the toilet and do it all from scratch.
I highly doubt any of the OEMs have any significant backstock left at this point and whatever they do have ain’t for sale at any price. There’s no reason to pay to keep overages in storage beyond what might be needed for R&D.
Aldear - thanks for your post, very interesting info about the Korean ball manufacturer.
Personally, I’d be happy to buy balls that simply replicated the feel and performance of balata (especially compression and spin), even if they had a synthetic cover material. Do you think they could make something that felt and performed like balata without being wound or having a balata cover?
I’ve mentioned this before, but the old Spalding Tour Edition that Norman made famous was a very high spinning solid ball. I remember hitting them and liking them. I think there is potential there. The ball just needs that soft marshmellow feel again that puts your head into a different view of playing shots and the game in general.
In an event where everyone is going to play the same ball, you are no longer at a disadvantage.
The logic that the modern gear is making the game more accessible to the masses is deeply flawed because ultimately it’s widening the canyon between shorter and longer hitters. It’s not just bringing Mark O Meara up to the longer hitters with the longer hitters staying the same.
Corey Pavin is still the shortest hitter, but instead of him being 30 behind, now he is 70 behind some of the guys… and much more difficult even for the best shotmaker to make up for that against a player of reasonable mediocrity.
More like 130… Let me tell you how fun it is watching a 19 yr old kid one hop a 3 wood in the front bunker of a 390 yd 4 par & then hole it for his third eagle in eight holes and not even blink. That’s the best… I love the automatic assumption that nobody hits it 400 AND has a short game AND a putter.
Why not have 8000 yard courses for those interested in playing golf hitting 350 yard or 4000 yard drives?
I’ll be over playing El Cabellero, Lakeside or Bel Air. Different games, different gear, different competitions.
I think there is room for everything. But being forced into one approach that essentially obsoletes the rich history that the game was built upon makes no sense in my opinion.
Lag said:
That was a likable ball…wonder why they stopped making it, and why they don’t restart.
It was too spinney I would guess for today’s low spinning rocket ball craze.
Yep…I played the Tour Edition exclusively for several years. They spun like crazy. I mean like CRAZY! They were good balls and really easy to work. But they did demand some good ball striking. Slicers and hookers need not apply.
The first generation spun harder than anything I’ve ever played, they ballooned like mad & I hit five irons that ended up thirty ft in front of the pitch mark. Wild. The second generation was better but never as good as the balatas, little bit dead feeling and didn’t check consistently around the green.
Just saw that post that your going to LA, bad timing again I promised the boss no more junkets til after the holidays, El Cab is in beautiful shape but the greens are at 12 so you’d probably hate it… Word to the wise though stay away from the clam chowder unless you like it non-dairy non-pork kosher. It’s different, I’ll say that…
Lag, Bradley, and Alec were all aware of my exploits for finding a balata ball manufacturer. I sold A business in 2008, so I had some disposable income to play with. And honestly, I was looking to start and /or invest in another business. When I came back to golf in 2009 after a 20 year hiatus, and realized that heavy forged muscle backs, balata balls and persimmon woods were pretty much considered relics, I just kind of accepted it…until I found ABS. Then I realized “Hey…maybe there is an opportunity for a small niche business here”. And honestly, I still think there is…but it is so small that none of the manufacturers with the capability to make this happen want to play in such a small game…I don’t really blame them if you’re looking at it from a standpoint of dollars and cents.
From my previous business, I had a ton of contacts in the Pacific Rim who were large scale manufacturers of sporting goods equipment. They gave me names and numbers of folks who were in the business of golf ball manufacturers. It’s weird, because my experience is that the Asian manufacturers are usually willing to do whatever they can to get American business. So I figured they’d come back and say “Balata? No problem…you’ll need to order 10,000 dozen, but we can do it…no problem” That’s ALWAYS the way it was in the fishing business. In fact, I don’t think I had ever actually heard the word “No” from an Asian manufacturer when I was in the fishing business. But I heard it about 15 different times when inquiring about Balata Golf Balls!
Alex is right, that at this point the only way to do it would be to do it yourself, and you’re talking about several million dollars in tooling, compression molding equipment, as well as untold hours of “on the job training” to get a usable quality product. And being a husband and father, that kind of time commitment is not something I am interested in doing at this point in my life.
To be honest, I actually think that a hybrid ball would be the answer…and by hybrid I mean a WOUND BALL with a URETHANE cover. Having worked with numerous chemists for sporting goods equipment I can say with 99.9% certainty that you could formulate urethane to do pretty much whatever you wanted in terms of a golf ball cover. Plus, it’s MUCH more cost effective than Balata, and much more durable. But the expense in making the ball is not so much the cover material as it is the amount of multi-step labor involved in making a wound ball…so again, were back to square one.
The final nail in my Balata Ball quest was when I ran the idea past Dave Wood about 6 months ago. His response? Basically…“Don’t bother”
Andy
Especially if you like eating dolphin, shark or whale! 
Captain Chaos
Interesting word choice there… The new Taylormade line is called “Rocketballz”. 
It sounds like something out of one of those Japanese animated TV shows for little kids, but that’s the actual official name of their 2012 line.
They look more like toys than golf clubs too.
This has been a good conversation. A great example of rational vs irrational, and the struggle we all face…especially when we have others counting on us to pay the mortgage, tuition, etc.
I re-watched Steve Jobs’ Stanford speech on Youtube this morning. Two quotes struck me in regards to this thread:
“you’re already naked, there’s no reason not to follow your heart.”
“stay hungry, stay foolish.”
I played the Tour Edition ball until they were no longer available. I loved them, especially the feel off of my Hogan Speed Slot persimmon driver. Those were the days!