Lag,
RE: “…Every single student has moved their left thumb to the right on the shaft, even if they don’t know it… why? because it has to be there.”
a horrific typo! thanks… it is now the left thumb!
Time to post some more updates about my game and a few more insights…
I have been working hard on module 3 recently and as Lag says, its very much a question of tightening the screws in one area and then going back and tightening the screws in another area and back and forth as each aspect gets stronger.
My latest lightbulb moment is the realization that these first three modules essentially teach us the creation of opposing forces, the net result being the generation of pressure in your hands. That pressure can then be varied to achieve different effects. In broad terms, its about learning the hook in module 1 and then learning the slice in module 3. The better we get at either module #1 or #3 will then allow us to go even harder on the other side of the equation (the opposing module) resulting in both more pressure and feel.
It’s a bit like a +1 on one side and a -1 on the other side that balances out into a 0. This zero is a straight shot without deviation. As we build strength on each side, these #s get higher as pressures increase so we might get to +4 and -4 but still the same canceling effect being 0 deviation in shot curvature. It’s really fascinating stuff, yet makes very logical sense.
I guess this is what makes this course so unique. It really is advanced concepts.
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Aiguille,
Great observation about the +/- relationship of Lag’s teachings.
The other thing that makes Lag’s instruction so unique, and which is also the reason as to why it may never reach the “mainstream”, is the EFFORT that it takes to really “get it”. Nothing in this world is really “free” and golf swing technique is no different.
There is a golf “pyramid” of sorts related to the skill level of golfers in the world. At the top is a very small percentage of serious players (and professionals) who are verry passionate about the game as well as being serious students of the swing, whatever their skill level is. I suspect that most golfers who choose to take on Lag’s program are in the what I would call the “hardcore top tier” of the pyramid… a very, very small percentage of the golfing population. The other 99 percent or so are content to read the latest version of any golf mag and look for the next quick tip. Those tips rarely require any strengthening of certain muscles and they certainly don’t require a few THOUSAND reps of a particular drill in order for that person to even BEGIN to develop a sense of the motion that is being developed! Most people simply will not put in that effort.
I always wanted to know why in the heck the golf swing “was what it was… and why”, which got me started on my TGM journey several years ago. I understood the principles, but I either couldn’t or wasn’t applying them properly and my game wasn’t getting any better. Despite the stagnation I was still convinced that if an instructor didn’t have a TGM background, then there was some smoke-and-mirrors instruction happening (perhaps it’s my engineering background). Lag’s interpretation of “hitting” rang a chord with me and I could hardly wait to get into the program. It’s a lot of work (at least for me it is) to get the drills right and I mean PHYSICAL WORK!!! I’m pretty athletic and it’s an exertion for me to do any of the drills… I can’t imagine what the average Joe would think of it!
Anyway… those that read this probably know exactly what I’m talking about!
Robbo
There is no doubt that a proper golf swing is a finely crafted masterpiece of biomechanical motion. It takes time… it takes work, and lots of patience. But, if you do the work, you will get results.
Alex is an Authorized TGM instructor taking The Advanced Ball Striking Course and at this point in time, is one of the few who has worked his way into module #4. I just wanted to share this with you all here, because it shows how dedicated he is, and that if you really grind on this stuff… very good things will happen.
Hopefully we can get Alex here to share more on this forum about how he has been evolving, and his experiences…
Lag’s Hitting or swinging
On ISG forums and recently on LBG forums there is a debate about whether Lag’s is a hitting or swinging protocol. For a while now I have been developing this image in my mind which keeps things pretty clear to me. Lets see how Lag and the other guys think of this. Lets imagine there is a 1 foot wooden block at around the hand plane staring at low point against left shoulder. There is slotted circular wheel with super ball bearings in the front part of the blcok. For swinging you have to bring the grip end of the club and place it into the slot (I sometime think of the circular wheel moving to complicate it but I have never been that kind of swinger so may be that is too complex). If you are able to achieve this the bearings take over and the rest of the swing is smooth sailing.
For LBG type hitting you are trying to extend your arms and try to hit the ball by fring your arms around the block so pushes will be common.
Now what we are doing can be imagined in two ways; 1. imagine the shaft has a sharp edge on the front side (opposite to the aft side). So from the P430 open position you want to bring that sharp edge into the block with the intention to rip through the block. So once into the block you keep ripping without any further rotating. Lag can fill in but the blcok may be 2 feet or even longer. 2. You try to twist and snap the shaft so the club head can go to the ball and your hands inside the block (I guess the shaft will have to reunite for the module 3 forces in this case). Anyho this is how I think of Lags protocol. Ripping through the wooden block or snapping the shaft. Powerful intentions. People might call it swinging or hitting but I am not that kind of a purist in terminology. What is for sure is that the force is applied across the shaft with both left and right hand and the pivot (you can’t break the shaft by longitudinally pulling it). If I was given the authority to coin a term, it will be “PIVOT DRIVEN GRIP TWISTING AND SHAFT SNAPPING”.
We can think of “The Hit” as exactly that… a hit… but we do this with the hands… aggressively and taking control of the release actively not in a passive way but an active way. This truly defines “hitter”.
So we define hitting here as active firing of the hands… hitting… not from the top but from the bottom of the downswing.
For swingers… the hands act as passive hinges. This approach uses what is defined as a flail…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flail_%28agriculture%29
Again, nothing new, but the flail or as TGM describes “The law of the Flail” it is referencing a hinge or non motorized… broken but with a hinged connected point in what would typically otherwise be a stiff stick to strike things with.
For this swinging style to work, several things must be in order such as a steady even acceleration, and a strong sense of timing the whip crack feel. It’s more like loose wristed slap than a firm fisted punch. Black and blue vs broken bones.
Either way, the hands as active motors or passive hinges must be driven by a good pivot rotation to strike a golf ball with any kind of reasonable effectiveness.
Our geometry here will be THE BY PRODUCT of our applied physics.
Properly applied forces will always create our wonderful geometry that everyone else can try to figure out how we do it.
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Cracking explanation, my module 4 work has really started to put together all the work from the previous three modules. After some more advice from Lag…I wanted to share some of these lightbulb moments with you guys and maybe see what your take on this is…
I have the sensation of my right elbow glued to the plane line, almost like rotating on a inverted cone, into as deep a P3 position as possible and then as deep a P4 position as possible.
This produces the most goddam phenomenal physical experience and the sensation is that there is no need for timing, that ball is going to be mashed as a byproduct of the motion rather than the objective of the motion. Its almost like the moment of impact is only a very small part of the process.
Very important is the position of the right elbow which remains glued to the plane line/inverted cone from p3 to p4.
Thanks Lag, it feels like the jigsaw is starting to take shape. What’s more, it is now clear to me that the better one can do the first three modules, the better you can do module 4, and the better you can hit it.
This is great stuff guys, a real boost to progress on and get to the reps required 
Great to hear Parker, some big Module #2 light bulbs going off. Thought I would share this with the forum readers. Look forward to hearing more in the module #2 forum.
One of my big light bulb moments was watching Moe start with the club a foot behind the ball, and drawn to the inside.
It took me a while to figure out what he was up too. We would talk and he told me that it eliminated unnecessary movement in the backswing. He would drag the club across the ground “he would say 42 inches”. What this does is establish the 4:30 line.
I am sure we all remember Lag telling us in the module 1 video about how he learnt from Moe Norman to set up a foot behind the ball.
Well, I must say that this was something that I tried much earlier on and it just felt very uncomfortable at that time. I tried it again yesterday, bowing to the 4.30 line thus establishing axis tilt, the club automatically wants to be set a foot behind and inside the ball on the 4.30 line so I let it just start from there…
I first tried this position in March when I started Lag’s class and starting from this weird position was disorientating and uncomfortable.
Anyway, I revisited this ‘foot behind the ball’ concept last night and it felt much more comfortable, almost ‘the right way’ now. The ball becomes much less important, the swing is more focussed on the correct p3 to p5 dynamic positions.
Also, it seems to ‘deepen’ the 4.30 line experience and establish axis tilt. I will actually play a round later today using this concept and report back with my findings!
Aiguille,
I started using Moe’s setup for Swinging before I found Lag simply as a way to establish built-in axis tilt. I had no idea about the 430 line but I did notice that my eyeline changed but I didn’t really know the ramifications. Only now is it clear. I had to adapt initally to the increased axis tilt because it moved my effective low-point back a little bit. I now use that setup with my half and three-quarter swing drills WITH the 430 line in mind and it has been really good so far. Good luck.
Bagger
Aiguille,
I think you’re on to something with the right elbow and “plane line/inverted cone” image. Could you explain the inverted cone image in a little more detail?
Thanks,
Robbo
The inverted cone idea is something that Lag described during a conversation in which we were discussing the plane of the golf swing. The point is that the golf swing does not exist in straight lines, for a hitter, it involves tight fast circles.
Lag described the concept or sensation of standing in an inverted 3D cone, the base on the floor, the apex was the subject of some discussion, I wondered whether it should be the dan tien, energy centre that martial arts describes although Lag originally felt that the head was the apex…either way, the concept works.He was keen to get away from any feeling of the hands moving back and forth along the plane line.
Imagine standing inside an inverted cone, apex at your navel, base at the floor, right elbow traversing into as deep a p3 position behind you as possible, then around the inverted cone to a mirror image deep p4 position then up using Lag’s fifth accumulator.
Lag told me that Hogan’s right elbow remains glued to the plane line from P3 to P4. It seemed logical to me that the right elbow could trace the inverted cone also. The right elbow rides on the plane… it is glued to the cone from P3 to P4, the right forearm is responsible for the plane shifting… the less the better.
The benefit of working on the right elbow being glued to the plane/cone is that at P4, there is still some right arm saved which allows for extra stability through the impact zone.
Would it go on from this that the deeper we are with the elbow at P3, the narrower the diameter of this inverted cone would be so that the elbow moves along the surface of this cone in a tighter narrower arc? If you look at the image below I mean the right elbow arc would be nearer the top than the bottom so it travels less distance but in a faster tighter circle?
The importance of the right elbow being glued to the plane line or the cone is that it retains that frozen right arm feeling that is essential for the hitting protocol.
The plane of the golf swing ( or rollercoaster ride) changes through the swing ( from flat and laid off to on plane through impact to very steep a la Peter Senior ) but the right elbow continues rotating in a conical manner with the pivot until P4. I would not say that the circle becomes tighter rather I think of it as a nice restful image of the right elbow being supported as it itself supports the golf swing through impact. One could also think of rotating within a cylinder.
Remember that Lag talks about the constant acceleration of the club on its journey through the swing. Think of the swing like a rollercoaster rise, each of the modules provide the basic structure of that rollercoaster system…the idea is to get to the stage where its easy to get on that rollercoaster, stay on it, and keep accelerating through it.
Today, I felt the rollercoaster ride for the first time ever…when you stay on the rollercoaster all the way through to the end of the ride, PV5, you sustain lagpressure and Lag was right, the ball loves it! I found that it was really really important to give yourself time to get on the rollercoaster at what I guess will be transition (which may be module 5) as it is very difficult to join the ride downstream .Hope some of that makes sense, its my personal take on things at this present time.
Great post aiguille. Hoping I can get on and stay on the rollercoaster as well!
I followed Marinez’s thread a while back and his quest to emulate Hogan’s swing. I think he has bent his irons flat as Lag promotes too. He came up on Lag’s iseek thread a bit ago, and his newest video describes his action as a trapped flail, which seems particularly apt. Any thoughts? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvBLofpbvXU
[flash=425,344]http://www.youtube.com/v/rvBLofpbvXU&hl=en&fs=1&[/flash]
Trapped flail is not what I feel…that is a very good looking swing nonetheless.
No, what I feel is a very cohesive sense of being on a rollercoaster as the plane changes from very flat to very steep from P3 to P5.
The rollercoaster has an invisible track but it is very defined and preordained and it is created by the laws of physics which as a hitter, we control, we do not leave it to timing or flailing, one could say that we are on a ‘trapped journey’ though.
Its almost like you have to abandon yourself to the basic physical intentions of the drills and hey presto…the geometry happens. Hope some of this is making sense. Through impact, the right arm is bent supporting adirected hit through the ball, beyond the ball, thats what gave Hogan his accuracy he had a yard of space in the swing in which he could hit the ball and still hit it straight. A flail gives you a few miliimetres only.
I’m not sure I feel a flail (or try to) in the swing either (and it is admittedly a little out of context with your most recent descriptions) - but I do like the idea of a trapped flail b/c in riding the roller coaster, I feel as though I’m constantly contradicting what the club naturally would do if I had “oily hinges” – so, in that sense, I’m doing everything I can to harness and redirect or trap the flail so that it gets trapped on the track of the opposing forces I’m trying to create. Just a thought…perhaps not that good of one, but a thought nonetheless.
I know exactly what you mean Cheese, the word flail implies the swinging protocol, the equal angular spiral, the straightening of the right arm, the rolling over of the club instead of the frozen right arm, the angled hinge, the rip it up from p4 which is the hitter’s method.
Indeed, the swing is trapped by the forces created by each of the modules, the invisible geometry.
Perhaps we can agree on trapped non-flail? 
Boy do i learn a lot hearing you guys talk about how the modules are kicking in. I’m one day into module 2 and I already feel a different golf swing
Hats off to your progress guys 
You are LEARNING so much and laying the ground for us guys behind.