Keeping the Head behind the ball

Interesting, so for you it should be easier to rotate the head during and after impact (the david duval look) ?

Correct…I just let the head go where it has to go and it certainly rotates a bit more than just being stagnant…there goes the keep the head still/eye on the ball theory :smiley:
That’s still the craziest comment I hear even when giving lessons…“I took my eye off the ball” or “Keep your head down you idiot!!”…I show them the video back and I say “Did you really not keep your head down?” then they begin to realize their statement had very little to do with the poor shot they just struck
The hands are the club…like a blind man-- you can feel everything without actually having to watch the object too intently

My feelings have changed a bit on the eye dominance thing from learning new things about the swing and speaking to some optometrists. I used to work for a vision insurance carrier and got to be friends with one of the people on the Board of Directors and he helped verify the information.

I think the good news is that if you are right handed, but left eye dominant (as I am), then you are not predisposed to having the head hanging back. To me, the head is a good ‘check point’ when looking at your swing on video or in picture stills. If it’s hanging back, even if you are right handed and left eye dominant (or vice versa), it tells you what the shoulders are doing.

However, I think golfers like Allenby, Duval, Charles Warren, Annika, etc, who have this very early head swivel and it looks like they are not even looking at the ball at impact…they are probably right eye dominant. Their shoulders also turn more like they should, but I cannot imagine a right handed, left eye dominant golfer being able to swivel the head like that.

Where eye dominance is a bigger factor, IMO, is in putting because you’re trying to align the putterhead. And with all of these wacky modern day putter designs, it doesn’t help golfers.

3JACK

That’s me, and I can, and used to do this as a swinger… but it is then difficult to go hard level and left with the shoulders. So I think that is best saved for pure CF stuff as you will end up right eye under left looking under the shot and with steep shoulders. With hitting however, the eyes are moving as level as the shoulders to me in feel.

It’s a pretty cool feel and visual of the ball when you let the head float down the fairway prior to contact. The ball appears as a white streak taking off, and the streak of the ball is caught by the right eye as the left has already left the building. It is really the eyes attempting acquiring a spot on the ground about 3 to 4 feet in front of the ball.

When one thinks about it, in billiards, shooting free throws, throwing darts, returning a serve in tennis…the last thing the eyes do is acquire the target- or where the thing being moved is going…which is, in this case, a location on the ground about 4 feet in front that the streak will pass over.

A person who is ball bound has no chance in this regard. :slight_smile:

I posted this pic of myself (from an under view 1988) on another thread …thought it was relevant here for this thread…head behind and chin pointing at ball

movement.JPG

I am right handed left eye dominant.

I remember Mac O saying he putted left handed because he is right eye dominant and could see the line better. Not sure it helped him really…

Not sure my being left eye dominant was the secret to my savy on the greens either?

Knudson said he shot 68 at Glen Abbey with both eyes closed.

It might be interesting to go play a round with a patch over my left eye and see what happens. My feeling thinking about it… is that a flat and level shoulder rotation will keep me out of harms way.

I’ve heard people say that being left eye dominant and right handed is good for putting, but they never really got into why other than that Nicklaus was that way and was a great putter.

David Edel who owns Edel Golf and makes their putters personally explained quite a bit of this on the greens. If you’re right handed and left eye dominant, the tendency is to aim right of the intended target. Conversely, if you’re right handed and right eye dominant, the tendency is to aim left of the target. Most people that are right handed are right eye dominant as well…and it’s no coincidence that most right handed putters aim left of the cup. It has to do with how the dominant eye is oriented to look down on the putter and what part of the putter blade the dominant eye tends to focus on to aim the putter. What Edel does is he has putters of all different shaped heads, hosels and different alignment lines and site dots. So if you aim right of the target, he’ll work with a putter combination for you that promotes the golfer aiming more left and finally they work to get the right combination of putter head, hosel neck, alignment lines and site dots, putter length, etc. that will get you consistently aiming at the target.

Anyway, I think the entire ‘right handed golfers who are left eye dominant are better putters’ thing probably stemmed from the days when Ping just came out with putters and when putter designs weren’t so wacky…but were generally designed as such that they unknowing promoted leftward aim bias. So the left eye dominant golfer…that fit in their wheelhouse because they aimed right of the target and now the putters were better designed to get them pointing at the target. But the right eye dominant golfer who aimed left to begin with, not a good idea.

3JACK

Geoff Mangum has some good info on the subject as it relates to putting:

He mentions that cross-dominant golfers (right handed with left eye dominance or the other way around) should not locate the target from beside the ball (address) but from behind (straight line between ball and hole). It is simply more accurate and eye dominance is not an issue from behind the ball.
The trick then is to reconstruct the aim line that you figured out when you stand beside the ball ready to putt. There are a number of ways to do just that. (using cues at or near the ball)

( network54.com/Forum/52812/me … s+and+Uses )

Another mangum link with good info:
network54.com/Forum/52812/me … ce+Effects

Nice article about the role of eye dominance in sports:
optometry.myzen.co.uk/articl … 030815.pdf

The best I ever putted was when I was aiming 15 degrees left of my intended initial start line… essentially push blocking all my putts. This kept my hands ahead of the blade and a nice flowing loop to my stroke that felt continuous… not staccato.

Forcing myself to line up square, make a perfect stroke, then hope the ball roles perfectly true, and then hoping I hit the ball exactly at the right speed, and that I read the putt perfectly is far to demanding and difficult a task for me.

I like to forget about alignment, or making a perfect stroke… but instead feel the variety of options I have available to make a breaking putt and then set up my stroke accordingly. I like to think I can make a poor stroke and still make the putt.

For instance, if I have a left to right putt that breaks 6 inches, I might be able to pull the putt some, but if that pull is caused by either a decelerating stroke or even poorly struck off the heel, those “flaws” will take speed off the putt, so it ends up taking more break and still having a chance to find the cup. If I push the putt, I want that contact to be super solid so that it takes less break and still has a chance of going in. This is an absolute reality in putting, and there are things you can do with how you set up your putter and how you set up your stroke also to move probability into your favor with less than perfect execution.

I used to be a great putter in college, in part because I had to be with my ballstriking suffering. I then got back into the game after an 8-year layoff and started striking the ball better, but lost my putting. I’ve been putting pretty well for almost the last year though, in part to Mangum’s ‘Reality of Putting’ DVD, the AimPoint stuff and my Edel Putter which I got in March.

I’m not too worried about making a ‘perfect stroke.’ I’m far more worried about speed. That is my top priority. Took me awhile to really believe that speed was that important, but it really is. I played a course a little while ago called Shingle Creek in Orlando and shot 68 and made some huge putts. A 60 footer on one hole. A 30 footer and two 20-footers along with a couple of testy 10 footers. What I noticed that day is that my speed was impeccable. None of these putts were ramming into the cup or even barely dying in the hole, they were just the optimal speed. That’s when I fully understood why speed is so important. Good speed optimizes the capture width of the cup (the ‘size’ of the cup that the ball will go into at a given speed). I had been working diligently on speed/touch using Mangum’s tempo and rhythm techniques in the DVD. I guess I believed him when he said how important speed on a putt was, but I didn’t really believe him until that day that I made so many of those putts.

Still, it has really almost nothing to do with making a perfect stroke, but using your brain and using your tempo and rhythm to your advantage.

Other than that, I agree a lot with Mangum on grip pressure with putters and changed that. I’ve noticed it has allowed my to keep the face square past impact. I have a tendency to close the face too much and miss putts when my timing isn’t on.

To me, it’s a lot like the swing…it’s not about being perfect. But, if you’re ‘off track’ a bit that forces you to make moves to get back on track. A guy like Isao Aoki could make those moves to get ‘back on track.’ Somebody like myself can’t make those moves to get back on track. So I’d rather be on track from the get go or minimize the amount ‘off track’ that I am.

3JACK

Does anyone regularly practice the ABS drills with their eyes closed? I sometimes do the Mod #1 bag drill that way to get a heightened sense of the forces at work.

Senior Gumby

I do when I remember… I’m a senior also :laughing: . Others on this site have recommended it also.