Thought I would chime in about the anatomy of the hips and pelvis. I have learned more about the hips and pelvis then I think anyone would like to know since im going to an osteopathic medical school. I plan to actually write up a paper for th journal of sports medicine on low back pain related to golf but that is another subject all together.
In all reality the hip joint itself is not mobile in the golf swing. When standing and placing weight on the hip joint the hip joint more or less locks itself into the acetabulum in the internal rotation and external rotation planes. When weight bearing it moves some in lateral translation but not nearly as much as the lumbar spine moves. The rotation component of the lower body that is seen in the golf swing is from more or less the right leg moving anterior and the left leg moving posterior. And the The rotary movements of the body is actually from the thoracic cage.
The lumbar vertebrae move most in flexion and side bending. The lumbar vertebrae function in a way that makes them more like a cement foundation anchoring the hips pelvis and thoracic area.
In fact a significant source of pathology occurs in golfers when the lumped vertebrae move in the same direct as the sacrum and pelvis. This is due to rotation and an upright swing that focus the rotational component of thew golf swing in the low lumbar vertebrae that a meant for stability and small amounts of side bending.
The thoracics move primarily in a rotational. This is counterintuitive but if you look at the muscular attachments of the major muscles in the body they attach in a fashion that is primarily rotation.
One of the reasons I like lags golf swing is that the anatomy of his golf swing makes anatomical sense. Its more accurate and uses the biggest muscles in the body to develop club head speed. Something that has been lost in the modern golf swing and has seen moves such as the stack and tilt which are notorious for low back pain.
After herniating disks in my back at the age of 23 I went looking in myself for a swing that utilized the major muscles of the body and stabilized the low back. What I found was lags golf swing.
For what it’s worth - I’ve suffered through chronic back pain due to moderate scoliosis and the associated muscular imbalance for about 15 years. The ABS swing has been signifcantly friendlier on my back. This suprised me at first because I definately feel like I’m pivoting harder and more aggressively. My guess is that I’ve reduced lateral hip slide and stopped early extension although I haven’t filmed a full swing in a while.
Hogan said something about moving his right knee towards the ball on the downswing…something like “the faster I moved it, the farther I could hit it”.
J, do you think this explains what he was saying?
Absolutely! But thinking about the right leg in the down swing for me has proved to be a very difficult task. What I have always thought of was to fire the hips through which bring the legs into that arrangement where the right leg moves towards the ball (anterior) and the left leg moves away (posterior).
This Firing also forces you to have ground pressure. Something i have always worked towards and something I know lag does in his swing to perfection.
Anymore questions Ill be around my computer all day today. Also look for a post in the equipment thread. I finished up my Macgregor club products.
Interesting stuff. And if you look at the Stack and Tilt web site, coincidentally their swing methods are endorsed by the IANA (invertebrate association of North America)!
Id be willing to be that your old swing saw early hip slide instead of the rotation component. Hip slide is something that definitely destroys the stability of a golf swing.
Think of it like taking a cement foundation and trying to build it on the side of a hill covered in mud. Its impossible. With the body however we try to adapt. We move the lumbars and put them into positions they shouldn’t be in. Mainly sidebent and rotated and flexed. (remember how they say lift with you legs, well we should really be doing everything with our legs)
Take a video of your current swing Im willing to bet big money that you see very little hip slide, very little flexion extension or sidebending at the lumbar spin and a great deal of rotation throughout the thoracic region.
Thats how the body is supposed to function. I think that is one of the reason that lag is so long off the tee. He uses the big muscles instead of trying to force the little ones to do a job that is impossible for them.
Oh Captain…thats amazing. Just busted up laughing in the middle of the library.
Look at that video you posted again. That actually isnt hip slide. That is weight transfer. These are two very different things.
HIps slide meaning, movement of the hips alone towards the target and not the entirety of the body. When the entirety of the body moves its a completely different process.
If the hips move themselves it takes the Base ( foundation of the body out from underneath of itself). Sort of like those golfers that push there left hip toward the target to initiate the swing. When you do that it causes a lot of problems because the rest of the body is forced to compensate and the only thing left to happen is for your body to compensate for the change in weight bearing line.
In hogans move, his weight bearing line doesnt move at all. It simply shifts left or right.
Im looking over the spine engine swing theory. From what I can tell the theory is that the rotation of the spine is a component of locking the facets in Sidebending and extension/flexion leaving only the rotation component for action which comes from within? Im not sure where they are getting the power to move the body in such a way. Which muscles are producing that action.
Im not sure how this really makes sense that the spine locks into itself to facilitate rotation but as I understand it the only way to move the spine would be via muscles and in a golf swing or in a pitch as is shown on the link the only way to do that is with muscles on the left side of the body ( for a right handed golfer) or by pushing the hips and trunk through using the right leg.
I personally try not to put my body into that sort of a position as I know that Sidebending (lateral translation of segment) and Flexion or extension of the spine) is the best way to injure yourself.
Think about it, in order to pick up a heavy box off the floor you dont bend from the waist and twist sideways to pick it up. No you use the big muscles of your body, your glut, your hamstrings, your quads. And you stabilize with the abdominals and the small muscles of the spine that keep the spine in a neutral postion. Evolutionarily, The Spine is not built to move your body from within its built for a structure and for protection.
Look at the guys like hogan and player, there lumbar spine is in neutral mechanics and that is a result of a solid base. Especially check out Players finish…that is telling of a guy who is trying to keep the lumbar vertebrae from extending to early and causing injury. (Thanks Lag )
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