Aw shucks!
No problem at all, I’m always happy to try and help. Putting would be one of my strengths, mainly because I have spent a lot of time trying to figure it out!
Dude, you have a lot of work to do on your self image!
sb
Even the FIRST vid doesnt look like a 19
trust me I KNOW what a 19 swing looks like!! Trust me on that!
bent
Great post SB944, I hope you continue to post your thoughts out here- your insight is great. I would agree with Styles, sounds and looks like you’re probably a lot more capable than you think.
I loved your thoughts on facing fears vs avoiding them- so, so true.
Cheers… keep up the good work
[size=200]Ergonomics and swinging versus hitting[/size]
This I think might be of interest to you. From a scientific standpoint it seems to me that real swinging is superior.
Under “Ballstriking Improvements I Have Made” I have posted a discussion that I believe might be useful. See my post of March 6 2010 at http://advancedballstriking.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1042&start=0&sid=2b405c1e9a8e1263edb9e790973165c5&sid=2b405c1e9a8e1263edb9e790973165c5#p11808
Dr Jaan
Do you talk about swinging and hitting as per TGM principles as Lag’s version of what is ‘hitting’ is subtly different and there is no confusion between the two-- we have countless examples of the BEST ball strikers ever being hitters according to the version we talk about here at Advanced Ball Striking…not good ball strikers but THE BEST… Moe is a swinger yes but what he does is a bit off the charts compared to most swinger styles because of elbow planes and such and has yet to be really copied effectively by any other player- that’s why he was the best striker using a swinger pattern with his type of action
Swinging almost permits the hands and clubface to roll through impact causing timing troubles and all sorts of variance of shot patterns if that timing is not correct
Hitting allows the clubface to stay much squarer throughout the impact area and beyond giving greater control and even more distance control and feel because the pivot controls the club NOT the hands
quote by Dr Jaan From a scientific standpoint it seems to me that real swinging is superior.
I think many get too caught up in scientific thoughts about the swing… Science is great but the greats of the game as far as ball striking go tend to go against the grain of what many scientific thoughts try to point out. Science never got to get inside the bodies and minds of Hogan, Trevino, Knudson and even Moe to physically understand what they were doing so they try to draw conclusions based on the scientific experiments of today’s players…alas…today’s players aren’t in the same league as far as consistent flushing of the ball and shotmaking is concerned so the data won’t be an indication of what the greats did
Discussion is always good…but we need to know what your ideas of hitting and swinging are… as with the TGM version there is confusion as both are almost identical in nature. In the ABS version hitting and swinging are two different beasts and the students can vividly see the advantage and difference of what they are learning here (mainly hitting) over what they used to do( mainly swinging)
What do you guys think about wind play ? I suspect a swinger is more miserable in the wind than a hitter.
I see some big scores at Honda classic and lot of guys struggling .
OK, back to the grind, module 4 is well under way, and I’m trying to find a swing plane amongst that. I found a very cool feel with the post impact rip upwards, that feels like you are lifting a car off the ground. Very strong, very quick and very easy feel to remember, so I hope it’s right.
I really got some nice hits in this morning, in a practice 8 holes (again repeating 3 long par 4’s). I’ve flattened the Hogans 4 degrees, and I think it’s made a decent difference. I also had the feel for really ripping the club up too, and perhaps the combination gave me a lot striaghter and more consistant shots. Some more length too. I’ve dropped an iron from my distances (ie 4 is now a 5, 7 is now an 8), and also hit drives another 5-10m longer this morning. I’ve also all but taken the right side of the course (being left handed) out of the equation too, with pulls being much more subtle than before, and hooks pretty much impossible. Some highlights include playing a mis hit drive from 200m with a 2 iron, and melting that thing right down the middle into the wind, settling on the front edge, that’s long for me and felt like magic. Also knew after pulling out a 5 iron that I’d be all over the flag, and left it 10 feet short right at the pin. Also a bunch of other made greens from fairway lies, and some other decent shorter irons leaving makable (for OK putters) putts. I still have misses, but they are getting far less destructive, and will still leave par as a possibility, especially as my putting improves.
The next couple of sessions will be all about putting, but I couldn’t resist trying out the flatter irons.
Good golf is a lot more about how limiting the number of bad shots than increasing the number of great ones.
A great shot in the fairway is simply in the fairway… still requiring a follow up… or a great iron shot, still requires you to roll in the putt from 6 or 10 feet. Miss the putt and the greatness simply washes off the scorecard… maybe not your memory though!
On the contrary, If you hit a horrible drive, that right there can cost you two shots… and a poor iron shot can do the same sending the ball into a hazard, or lake, or OB. It’s tougher to make up for those kind of shots with a couple of birdies, than if you simply didn’t hit a really bad shot.
When I miss a fairway, I like it to be just off the fairway in the rough… not in another zip code. Or a poor iron shot leaving me a 40 foot putt, not sifting through a bunker trying to find a plugged ball that disappeared.
I have seen some pretty mediocre ball striking post 68 on more occasions that I might like to remember. You don’t have to appear stunningly impressive to be a really fine player.
1 Like
sb944,
Are the putting tips you mentioned on March 4th posted on this forum?
thanks/eagle
No truer words there! It always amuses me when somebody is shocked at my posting a 70 or 71 and they say, “Wow, I didn’t see you do anything extraordinary! I never would have guessed you shot that!”. Exactly! No nuked wedges from two fairways over to 10 feet. No 220 yard stinger cuts running up between bunkers because I flaired the drive into the trees. No holing out for par because my first went OB. No chip-ins. etc, etc.
But you know what…I’m happy to bore people to death with my golf all day long. 
Captain Chaos
Chaos, I will see just how bad my bad shots are Sunday morning, first comp coming up!!!
eagle, there are tips on this thread, tips in a putting thread robbo put up a couple of weeks ago, and I’ve also read Al Barkow’s “Final word on putting” book, which gave a lot of technique advice. I’ll probably read through a few sections of that again soon too.
Found’um! Thanks. They are mostly around Feb 28th, March 1.
Al’s Book is really good…
He’s a really good putter, and 78 to boot… so I think that speaks volumes to me. Having co authored books with some of the greatest putting legends like Casper, Stockton, and George Low… it doesn’t get much better than that.
I agree on how good that book is Lag, I went from fearing the greens to being a confident putter that is looking at one putting every hole.
Got together with two ABSers this morning for a quick nine before work, and will hit up with Pipp again on Saturday morning.
Just a quick recap of my first comp though. Late last week my usual Saturday morning practice was thrown on it’s head, but my wife said go Sunday morning instead, and luckily enough there were early tee spots for my first comp. I managed a pretty decent start, and the hardest longest hoel, the 4th, saw my longest drive ever, nice 6 iron and a par. The drive ended up being bad though as I started chasing that long drive, and within a few holes I was trying harder and harder to hit it long, and results fell away. I scrambled around to be one over my handicap after 9, but I could feel it was falling apart, and the back nine tortured me. I ignored warnings that my swing was lost, and instead of trying to find it, kept at what I was doing. I ended up being way over my handicap, and really didn’t have a fun day of it, which is unusual for me.
So Pipp made his way down from the Gold Coast to Sydney late last night, and decided it was a good idea to come out with Anth and myself for a very early 9 at Ashlar. The early morning fog and barely rising sun made for a pretty scenic outlook. With us were some classic blades and persimmons, Pipp hitting Wilson Staff woods and Wilson Buttonback blades, Anth with Silver Scott woods and Wilson Staff blades, and me with Macgregor Tourney woods and Hogan Apex II’s. I think the first 3 holes were ones we’d all rather forget. Anth nailed his first drive of the day, but that was a rare highlight over those three holes. After this Anth hit quite a few solid draws down the middle with the persimmons he claims he can’t hit. I picked up considerably after 3 just struggling to finish off opportunities from then on, and Pipp struggled to get anything going unfortunately, until the 8th where he hit a solid persimmon off the deck and left himself a very tight tough chip shot and decided to just put it in! Despite this, we all have a lot of work to do around the greens, and it’s a while until Lag see us as model students from a ball striking point of view.
It was a tough week leading to this. I had built up quite a lot of confidence going into last Sundays round, and I was a little bruised after my poor efforts and still am a decent way from regaining the confidence I had only a week ago. But this experience has regained my golfing strength, not so much to be scaring par anytime soon, but just to enjoy the chance to get out and play a nice nine holes and enjoy the company and course we were playing on. I know Pipp is already there with that, and doesn’t like to score, and hope Anth feels this way too. I also think we’ll be OK if we keep going with the modules, there is a lot of good stuff starting to show in the ball striking area, we just have to get it happening more often.
It was a good morning, pity we had to stop at 9. Score was of no relevance to me because the company was good and I did hit quite a few memorable shots. Shot of the day was Pipp’s slam dunk!!! SB was solid as always and just ground the course down. The course was a long monster this morning but my persimmons loved the outing - they put up a great argument for leaving the titaniums at home for good!
I agree, it was a very nice morning and very memorable, not for my golf though. 
Thanks guys for the company and Anthgolf for shouting me the round. I don’t know what you’re going on about when you say you can’t hit that persimmon, you nailed it almost at every hole with a nice draw and when you didn’t go in the middle the ball was going straight, so obviously just an alignment or ball positioning issue.
SB went around the course nicely hitting solid irons and some great drives. It won’t be long before he shoots in the 70s I’m sure.
As far as me, well…let’s forget the morning, tomorrow I have a very important comp trying to take the world famous 
white belt trophy to Queensland. I’ll just go out not expecting much and trying not to waste shots and see what the day brings.
You’ll need some white patent leather shoes and some hound’s tooth print sans-a-belt slacks that flair slightly at the leg opening to go with that “white belt trophy”! The height of fashion.
Captain Chaos
It’s been an interesting week. Pipp alerted myself and anth to a full set of local RH Macgregor blades and woods for a BIN of $70, and when anth stepped aside I picked them up. A little rusty, but very heavy solid feeling irons. Only I’m not right handed. Well… I decided to start drilling right handed like I planned to a few months ago. I am right hand dominant, so I think it makes a bit of sense that I’d have no problem hitting right handed. Obviously, it didn’t feel too natural. Module 1 stuff feels good, but module 2-4 needs a lot of work, but I’m going to continue with that.
Got the course this morning, loaded with a mixed bag LH 1w, 2,3,5,7,9,W,SW and RH 1w,2,4,6,8,W,P. My first 2 iron off the tee actually flew pretty well, picking up around 170m, just off the left edge. After that I saw a few different shots, mostly being short low and right, nothing exciting about the look of the shots, but still encouraging. Highlight was a 155m 4 iron from the fairway that made the front bunker. Actually on the same hole I hit a 35m wedge to 5 feet, so I guess that’s the highligh, although not a full shot. At that point I decided to see if some tricks I’d picked up for left handed might work OK.
The tricks were two fold. Lag has told me to cock my wrists more (and I think he will tell me this again after last module 4 vid yesterday), and in my drills I finally started feeling this last night. Also I struggle to get a feel for how to get the club to the ball, and the last few days stumbled across that right armpit (for me). To get it, I lag the arms behind a bit more than usual, and pivot as per normal. So I’ve been working on that all week and really want to see it at the course. Well… yes!!! I saw an array of sweet shots, drives, long irons, short irons and even chipping and putting was on. Even better the feel off the club was un paralleled. I was hitting the slightest of draws for the first time ever, and everything felt effortless. I didn’t actually gain distance and might have even lost 5m, but it was the same tragectory and distance every shot, and the irons were much, much tighter. But more than anything, I felt a lot more in control on the downswing, something I’ve been lost with since joining ABS, and just repeated sweet contact after sweet contact. I even saved a couple of the missed shots, with up and downs, so I’m not sure I bogeyed any the 5 holes, playing 2 balls. Lots of fairways, or light roughs, lots of GIR or just off the green but pin high. Actually I bogeyed the very last ball on the last hole when I missed the up and down, but even then I was trying to run a 7 iron up the bank, something I haven’t practiced before.
So looking back over the last 4 weeks, I’ve had 2 days where I’ve been really happy with the results, one day where I was happy with half of it, and another day where I was OK with the last 6 holes of a 9. I’m very OK with that. And even if today was the absolute peak of what I’m capable of, I’m still happy, as what I did today was play good golf. Oh well, back to drilling.
sb,
Ok… now THAT is what I call a mixed bag!!! I think Two posted the Mac O right-hand/left-hand sequence somewhere, so you’re in good company.
You are a much bigger man than I! I have to think in the long run being able to swing/hit either way would be great… I just don’t think I’d have a prayer!
robbo