Mikeydurbs, they did make Cricket bats out of aluminium back in the early 80’s or late 70’s, just have a look on youtube
I would like to have access to this forum.
Would be great to see the ideas shared and see if my thoughts could be helpful.
Nutmeg
Lag,
I’d like access to this section. Not sure what input I could offer but I’d like to read through it.
Me too. I love playing persimmon but living in Italy there seems to be zero interest or opportunity but I’d like to read through the discussion.
you should see the thread now…
I also would enjoy to read what people have been discussing, and who knows might have something to contribute as well 
I’d very interested as well.
Here’s a quote from Frank D. ( SANDY) Tatum Jr.
I definitely feel nostaglic about the days of persimmon woods and balata balls and 2-irons that lookked like butter knives. It was a better game then because you were more of a factor in what you did. You weren’t helped along by somebody in a laboratory who in a sense is hitting the shots for you. Modern technology has ruined the game to some extent. I’m talking in retospect of course.
Quote
E-mail I received today… it’s amazing how people do take notice when someone gives them something to notice
[i]Hi Brad
I only just discovered your site. Thankyou for opening my eyes to what has happened to golf. I’d never really considered all this before but I must concur with you 100%. I’m optimistic that sanity WILL prevail and the love of the great golf courses and the art of shot making will prevail again as people realize that ultimately we could just automate a club, stand there and “fire” it at the perfect spot on the hole if thats what we really want! But of course that would be the day golf completely dies. Personally I don’t think that is going to be allowed to happen but we have to firstly get close to doomsday for people to wake up and take action. Seems to be the human condition unfortuntately. We’re not very good at “looking ahead”!
On a more personal note I also wanted to thank you for finally giving me the courage to walk into my golf pro shop and DEMAND that he flatten my lies! For years and years I’ve been going to golf shops to buy clubs determined to get flatter lies because I KNOW they are what I need but always walking out with upright ones yet again! Because once again they convinced me that its ME who is at fault not my clubs. Well you’ve finally convinced me to no longer allow the tail to wag the dog. I’m getting what I want. I have intuitively known for years that flatter lies would make me swing better but never had the guts to push the point because “what would I know?”. Well now I do know - thanks to you giving me the final push.
Great site Brad. I hope to get over there and have a lesson with you sometime.[/i]
And another via YouTube
Mr Hughes
Thanks very much for your stand on equipment ruining the game. Because of this, The Masters, always my favorite tournament to watch is no longer exciting. I’m an old club aficionado with my set of 64 Hogan Plus irons and persimmon woods my most cherished golf possession. I play with them regularly. Since I’m not a very good golfer I don’t think they hurt my score one bit and they’re sure more fun.
Perhaps if people like yourself stay on them the USGA will do something to return golf to the artistic game it was when I first started playing. Thanks
I was shooting a video today for the ABS putting module over at Blue Rock Springs. This old timer came over to me… filled with curiosity and asked what I was doing. I told him I was working on a putting technique that would keep me away from using the long putter he was holding. He told me what he was doing was legal and that he actually uses the Sam Snead sidesaddle method, which I hadn’t seen in a long time. Anyway… I told him the events I play in don’t allow them nor do they allow frying pans, metal woods and so on… and his eyes just lit up! I told him about TRGA and he just wouldn’t stop talking to me and asking questions about it. He said, well, it’s about time someone did something about what has been going on with golf.
He loved my persimmons and told me that the super stiff heavy shafts in my 56 Dynas were the correct clubs to learn to swing. It was so surreal, it was like I was talking to myself… he was giving me all this advice that I am usually giving other people. He told me back in the day he was a champion golfer and loved playing persimmon and heavy flat blades and spinning the balatas around corners and into tight pin placements. He was so excited about TRGA… probably more than I am!
Lag, I had a somewhat similar experience. I was playing at my local course with my persimmons and got grouped up with a couple of guys. One of the guys was a pretty good golfer and was hitting his titanium driver 300 yrds or so with the usual high trajectory, seems to carry forever shot. He noticed my persimmons after I hit a few drives (can’t miss that sound or the tiny heads). I think he thought I was hitting 5 woods off the tee for a few holes since my driver is painted black with a clear coat. After talking about equipment and persimmons and how he used to play them back in the day we finally got to about the 11th hole and he got finally got the courage up to ask to hit my persimmon. I told him no problem, hit it as much as you like. He hit a great shot about 270 yd low bullet and his face just lit up. 
It’s like it awakened an old memory of pure happiness. His friend who never hit persimmons before took a swing too. He couldn’t get it airborne so obviously no more swinging that club anymore.
Anyway, he kept hitting that persimmon the rest of the way in and smiling like he had a new toy. I told him I got it at Goodwill for $4 and he just laughed because his driver cost $399. He was going to scrounge in his garage because he thought he had his old persimmons in there somewhere.
Sometimes, I think just having someone hit a persimmon again may be all that’s needed (especially if they hit a good shot). Those who have never hit a persimmon will probably never understand, although nothing feels better in golf than a sweet shot off a persimmon. Maybe they could learn to like that. I know I do.
If you truly believe that golf took a serious wrong turn into frying pans, long putters, laser scopes and so on… the best thing you can do is simply live by example and play persimmon. The PGA Tour is set up for the modern game because the courses are not penalizing enough off the tee. But your course might be penalizing enough. Or you can switch courses and play one that is. Learn to hit persimmon straight on a tight course and you will have a huge advantage because you will also have a much better ability to control both shot shaping and trajectory having the mass behind the sweetspot rather that out on the perimeter. Over time, it will improve your swing and make you a better player.
If I hit a modern driver… I hit it a mile, but have no feel and zero idea where it is going. While that might work on many golf courses, they are not the kind of courses I am interested in playing or wasting 3/4 of my day walking around… or worse yet, riding around waiting for the group in front of me to dial in their laser scopes… then they miss the green by 30 yards. I just don’t do it.
Because persimmon is an organic product, every driver is different. I have never felt two persimmons that even played exactly the same. It’s a completely unique experience for each club… and there is a beauty in the search, and finding that magic one that just feels perfect, fits your eye just right, and sounds just right when you hit it. Of course you can work on your own club and retrofit it and customize it to your needs also. Increase or decrease weight or swing weight. You can move weight around inside the head… and place it exactly where you want. You can’t do that with a hollow driver. You can change inserts, flatten the lie angle, add or remove loft, especially if you have one that starts with a bit of face progression. You can stain it any color, or paint it black or have it blonde and natural. You can switch out the shafts and vary the bore depth. You can reset the head so that it sits more square, more open or more closed.
Ultimately you can put a lot more you into the club, and there is something special about that. It changes things and give you a connection to the club that feels unique, different and personal. Like an old trusted friend… or maybe a new friend.
I don’t think a true master of anything is using a stock off the shelf product. What car nut isn’t going under the hood and doing their own modifications? What great chef is not experimenting with ingredients? What master magician is not creating their own illusions… or a musician altering their instrument in some way?
It’s simply a more natural human process to get there at some point and start experimenting in a more personal way.
Most people start stock, then move into personal customization.
Doing my part Lag, in some small way, reliving nostalgia.
The other day two eldery women came to the range. They were both in their 70’s, appeared quite fit and trim, everything in their wardrobe and gear matched, all perfumed up with nice hair perfectly styled…in other words, loaded for bear. As soon as I saw them come in the rat brain kicked into those times when women were second class citizens at the club.
Here’s how the conversation went:
Rat: Welcome ladies, how can we help you today?
Lady: We’ll have one large bucket and we’ll spit them… can we hit off the grass?
Rat: Sure no problem practicing on the grass but we do have one problem?
Lady: What’s that
Rat: Well…we don’t normally allow women to practice here until after 3:00 in the afternoon. (keeping my 
)
Lady: Young man, it’s unfortunate that you won’t be alive by then 
What a blast from the past…
Range, luckily she didn’t try to show you the trick shot of how to hit two balls at once with her 7 iron for that comment. 
After learning of ABS, John and Bradley, I went to a thrift store and found an old Hogan persimmon 4 wood, pretty beat up, needs restoring, but the face is in ok condition, no cracks in the head that are visible. So, after working on some of the ABS concepts I had a new grip put on it and headed to the range. Having never been able to hit a persimmon wood of any kind in the past I viewed my new treasure as more of a practice aid than anything else.
After warming up a bit with PW, 9I, 8I, 6I I decided it was time to hit the Hogan. I won’t say the first swing was bliss, won’t even tell you the second or even third was either, but, after about 5 or 6 balls I started to get a feel for the club. And boy, did it feel and sound great, very different from what I was used to, but somehow it felt like I had stepped back in time as to how golf was meant to be played. I loved the sound of the whack of the club as it met the ball And the feel, was totally new and so different it took some time hitting the persimmon to begin to be able to even describe to myself what that sweet feeling could be. First thing that came to mind to describe that feel is heaven!
Fast forward a couple of weeks and I take my treasure to the course to play a round with it. I was paired with a much older gentleman, in his mid 70’s I would suspect and he was just out to have some fun, as was I. So he notices me hitting the old persimmon and asked me how long I had been hitting it. After telling him only a couple of weeks he said; “You hit that danged thing rather well.” I can’t tell you how proud that made me feel, I was actually hitting it better than any other club in my bag that day. After a bit we started discussing the current state of golf and he said he hated having to hit these new metal things they call woods but that at his age he just couldn’t hit straight enough or long enough any more with out using them. I believe he probably could have, however, I did notice his health was not all that great so it probably would be a struggle for him to hit an old blade and swing a persimmon, even though I think privately he wishes he could.
Lag - I would be interested in joining the forum if possible. Probably couldn’t add anything but would love to be a fly on the wall!
Just came home on a loooooong flight from S. America, and when I’m stuck on a plane for 10+ hours, I’ll usually crack open the inflight mag at some point. This one had an article about 82 year old ping-pong hustler Marty Reisman, who brought up some interesting points about the ‘evolution’ of his sport.
"Reisman says he stopped competing for international championships in the early 1950s when sponge rackets (made with a layer of sponge under the paddle’s rubber face) changed the game - for the worse, in his opinion.
‘It curtailed my chances of ever winning a world championship,’ he says. ‘Players could suddenly do crazy things with the ball. It favored players who heretofore were relegated to secondary and tertiary positions.’
“That’s why Reisman is so gung-ho about promoting the hardbat game, a movement he jump-started in 1997 by winning a national hardbat title at age 67. He currently uses a paddle fashioned from Finnish Birch by the late Bernard Hock, a premier paddlemaker in the 1950s.
‘I resurrected a game resigned to oblivion by winning a national title 39 years after I first won it.’”
Maybe this dude seems a little more Titanic Thompson than Jack Nicklaus, but he obviously knows his shit. I think it’s really interesting how his opinion revolves around the fact that equipment shouldn’t be leveling out the playing field. The idea that less forgiving gear rewards the more skilled player. That last sentence is also a killer: “I resurrected a game resigned to oblivion…”
i would love to see this forum.
You should see it now…