Most golfers I have seen would benefit from heavier gear. There are two primary rotations going on… the torso and forearms.
Both can be strengthened, both can increase range of motion through increasing flexibility. Then along with strength, we are developing spacial awareness also. I don’t think you should practice with anything other than a golf club. I’ve wasted a lot of time in the past with various training aids… but the conclusion I have come to is that ultimately it’s best to swing a golf club and work it into resistance training with proper protocols.
Module 3 increases flexibility of the torso after impact. Is there a drill to increase flexibility on the backswing?
I think the laying off is right on for swingers. The layoff allows the L wrist to get locked, which in turn allows you to have that full roll intent with the minimum possible face closure rate… your BS gotta be in a specific way though…
Layoff can be for hitters or swingers. There are different ways of doing it also. Cupped left wrist or arched left wrist. Active or passive through transition. Hitters and swingers would have different ways of getting the face squared up also. Aggressive forearm rotation (Hogan’s three right hands) or try to time it with a CF pivot stall - dump and roll.
How about RFT, locking the wristS on top, flat L wrist feel but slightly bent, fully bent R wrist, locking the R elbow into a pitch, then aggressive forearm rotation but this time with the L arm/elbow/forearm/wrist with a non-automatically bent R wrist and with a non-stalling CP pivot…turn turn turn and roll?
Had my gamers bent flat, played a round and was not happy with my ball striking after the previous day at the range hitting the ball well, not so much distance wise, but impact and accuracy was good. Now, What I just said has no bearing on ABS, what it does have a bearing on is I stink!
Took Friday off, practiced Saturday to see if I could regain, and/or figure out how to recapture some lost distance that has me concerned. I added some weight to my irons using lead tape. Helped a little.
I recently acquired some Hogan 1+ irons, 1969 model, and had the 8 and 9 irons re-grepped. Began using them Saturday and practiced with them again today. Today I only hit the Hogans, unfortunately they have Apex 3 shafts, I need stiff or X Stiff according to what I’ve been reading here at ABS, I normally game stiff shafts.
At the range today I did manage to hit the 8 iron up to 140-150 yards,9 iron 130-140 on good strikes, where before I was only hitting the 8 iron 130-135 and the 9 iron 120-125 give or take. So it seems that as I add more ground pressures and forearm rotation, pivot speed and with a little more weight added to the club head I will be able to regain some distance. Will I ever hit the Hogans 160? Doubt it, but that is not what I am seeking at this time. I am seeking better ball striking, better accuracy and more consistency. At least now I am starting to feel like I can count on where the flight of the ball will take it and not be so concerned as to where the ball will end up, it seems that my accuracy is improving little by little. I’m no where near close to where I want to be yet, but working on it.
Whats interesting to notice is how upright the old Hogans seem since I’ve been practicing with clubs that have a flat lie angle. Seems strange, but somehow I know its right.
Hogan irons in general are great heads. I love the head shapes. Some sit better than others. Some come stock too upright, while others have too much offset. Most all Hogan blades are a bit too light. But again, this can all be fixed. The Hogan company made clubs for the public golfers, and would make customized clubs for their tour players. So it’s important to remember than the public releases are not the same as what was getting into the pros hands. Hogan’s personal gear was quite different than his company releases.
I like Hogan gear as a starting point, and then work them into something more like what Hogan himself played. Loft and lies, weight, shafts, all are adaptable.
They are great heads. I love the look and feel of the '69 1+ irons. You definitely know when you hit a good shot, consequently, you also know when you mishit it.
I do plan on getting new shafts and grips and getting all the specs, weight included, in line with in line with ABS recommendations.
Your recommendation about forearm rotation really hit a note with me and as I work on adding it to my swing I think my ball striking and distance will improve immensely.
As with all change hard work is required along with giving new feelings and motions time to ingrain themselves and become familiar.
One of the reasons I found the lie angle so noticeable, which I do believe is a good thing. Seems my divots are a little deep at the toe, with the Hogan’s deeper on the heel, however, on good swings the divot is mostly level and shallow.
Divots are like viewing recorded history. There is a lot to learn from proper divot analysis.
What is the ultimate reason for the flatter, much flatter, lie angles?
You move the left geometric vector of possibility clockwise toward the target.
In other words… OTT doesn’t go as far left.
Then there are all the internal dynamic reasons about how to release the club, and the physics of torso rotation just to scratch the surface.
You don’t have to swing flat to play good golf… but you are making the game more difficult than it need be, especially on off days.
If you do it right, you can remove most of the timing elements from the golf swing.
Your experience sounds really close to mine JesseV. I started incorporating hitting protocols into my golf game about 3 weeks ago and while I have a more predictable ball flight with more consistent contact, i immediately noticed that all my irons lost 10-20 yards. However, as far as I’m concerned about my short irons I’m not too concerned about it. If I’m left with hitting an 8 iron instead of a 9, I’m not really getting to bent out shape since I’m confident in the trajectory and flight of my 8, does that make sense? in the end, if I’m confident in my trajectory, ball flight and shot shape. I just have to modify which clubs I use for certain distances and i don’t’ really mind that. The hit (pun intended) is more to my ego than anything else, but I’m starting to get over it since I can hit GIRs with much more consistency/regularity then before I started hitting.
I do encounter more uncertainty now with my long irons. Its frustrating experience not being able to carry my 4 iron more than 200 yards now, but I guess that’s just part of the journey that I (and, i’m sure, many others) am on towards being an accomplished ball striker.
The kicker that I have is that I bought new irons just before i started reading anything from Lag or Brad Hughes so I can’t really afford to put up to much more money for a set of irons on ebay (plus I’m a lefty so irons that I could modify to ABS standards are a little harder to find, at least so far). Right now I’m playing a set of Titleist 710 CB’s, I tried to get the bent flat at GolfTown (Canadian equivalent to golf galaxy or golfsmith) and they cried foul when I asked to get them bent 4 degrees flat so I just got them bent 2 degrees flat (which was the max titleist said the CB’s could handle). Then I added 3 generous strips of lead tape to them to bring the swing weight up and i’ve noticed a big difference (as you did) to the ball striking. Hopefully later in the fall I’ll be able to get a nice set of old hogans or MacGregors that I can take a modify to ABS Specs. I’d like to start actually taking part in Lag’s drills by that time as well. For now though, i’m just plugging away, trying to enjoy the game and learn what I can from this forum (which has been a lot so far).
Happy Hitting!
Once you get accustomed to using a flatter delivery and using forearm rotation along with the pivot as the after burner… Instead of swinging the arms… then distance comes even on a grander scale.
You can have a shallow delivery and very rotational swing with an upright pivot without flinging or disconnecting the arms from the body. You get both rotational power from CP and accuracy/consistency from maintaining the connections.
That’s why I hate people differentiating or contrasting flat vs upright. Advantages of both can be attained with a rotationally-upright swing.
Flat beats upright, period. Happy to debate.
Steve
For flat swingers–why would you want a plane that stays at impact at a shorter interval, or a Baseline that’s shorter?
For upright swingers–why would you want a plane that’s has a steeper AoA and doesn’t benefit much from the rotation of the pivot or CP?
These cons CAN be combined. So I hate the classification flat vs upright. I like…flupright?..
For flatters–yes you want a shallower AoA and a plane that stays more level to the ball, and the power delivered by a rotational pivot?
For uprights–yes you want a plane that stays at impact longet and a Baseline that’s points straighter to the target.
These pros CAN be combined. So I hate the classification flat vs upright.
Ask a question, so the debate can start.
would you classify Nicklaus as having this type of action?..just tryin to gauge an idea of what you see
I have always liked this image of flat V upright…but which is which?..this pic should help with allowing those who haven;t seen it already how the swing works in 3D
No. I think Nicklaus is strictly upright in BS…but becomes more what I am describing AFTER he transitions…