Just out of interest, is the general feeling here that a shot which is struck purely with that rifle crack sound but sails OB, valued higher than a poorly struck shot that lands on the front edge?
I watched Kyle Stanley as well. The previous week he had blown a 6 shot lead, 3 of them on the final hole (and two of those gone because his wedge was too pure!), now he was on the 18th with a shot at redemption. The carry over the water on the left is 300 yards but then safety because beyond that the area is trampled down and if he goes up against the corporate hospitality he gets a free drop. The pin is cut hard right meaning that hitting it right off the tee is not an option. Where he hit it with the tourney on the line, fresh from blowing a win the previous week was the only place to hit it.
That wasn’t bad ball striking or anything else, that was the smartest most professional decision he could make. He hit it there on purpose.
Not sure about sailing OB like 30 yards over a green because your yardage laser scope picked up a tree behind the green instead of the flag…
But purely struck with a less than perfect result?
Of course, because golf is a game of probability, and the properly struck shots that in “one sample event” yields a poor result will win out by far over the course of time vs the poorly struck shots that get’s a lucky bounce or somehow end up safety.
The last two times I have played I hit 15 and 16 greens. One round I came up basically empty handed as the putts were simply not dropping leading to a score of 75. On the other day, a couple putts went in for whatever reason… probably had a better feel for speed and I shot 67.
I think it is much easier to learn to strike the ball well (14 to 18 greens) most every time out. Much harder to know you are going to hole four or five 20 footers every round and not miss inside 6 feet.
I like the idea of knowing my putter has the potential to get hot at times… rather than simply being a full time bad putter.
An occasional poor putting round is not much to worry about. I feel I have the potential to get hot with the putter now… so I would rather be hitting lots of greens and on occasion really knocking the pins down… and just be patient and wait for the hot putting days to come, rather than trying to wait for an insanely hot putting round that leads to a very rare low score. Harder to rely upon that happening as often as one might like.
I have a laser range finder and you shoot at the actual flag, not the flagstick. Then it’s like simple carpentry ‘measure twice, mark once.’ Plus, Bushnell’s rangefinders have technology that makes it even easier to shoot at the flag. In fact, I can shoot at bunker edges and bunker lips with good accuracy. If you’re mistakenly shooting at trees behind the green more than once, you’re a klutz.
Tiger isn’t allowed to shoot with a rangefinder in a tournament and most of the pros have the same exact yardage book that has been carefully made anyway. I think the problem for Tiger is that he gets too much shaft lean with the wedges and he struggles with distance control.
I only watched the last few holes of Pebble. Don’t watch much, if any, golf on TV anymore.
Few observations. Looks like Tiger is wearing bedroom slippers. If my eyes caught it correct and memory serves, it looked like the right foot didn’t hold too well on his second to the 18th hole.
And Mickelson and caddy on 18 tee. Geez, the amount of stategy chatter between them was unsettling to me. I mean given how often he has played that course, in myriad conditions, not to know how to play aggressively smart by his own intuition. If I had a tour level game, I would for sure not need a caddy’s opinion. Just hand me the club and shut up!
I loved the chatter between Lefty and Bones. I think Phil initially had the notion of pulling 3-wood or something. He just can’t help himself, he’s got a very active gambling gene. Cracks me up. And then Bones starts jawing, ‘no, 4-iron here, just take it right at that second bunker.’ 4 iron, you think 4-iron? ‘Yeah, definitely 4-iron.’ At this point I’m yelling at the screen, ‘take the 4-iron!’ Laughing so hard. All these years, Lefty is still just a big kid. I love it.
What?! Are you for real?!? Did you type that post with a straight face?
Let’s recap: A professional golfer is worried about how he finished last week, on a different course, after already hitting how many real/practice shots, etc. Uh, okay. If that’s the case, Kyle Stanley better get a brain transplant because he’s weak in the head and would probably be better suited to the stresses of public service. Styles, you may wish to get on that list yourself for even making that hypothesis.
As someone that was literally RIGHT THERE for most of Stanley’s back 9, including being within 15 feet of the tee box on 18, I can safely say he didn’t intend to start it there. It looked like he was trying to stay well right of the bunker, and pulled it really bad. I have watched dozens of tee shots there. Nobody would ever consider trying to put the ball where he ended up. He and his caddie looked awfully nervous as it took off-clearly it wasn’t intended. He just over-corrected for the blocked 3 wood he hit at 17, plain and simple. I’m not a Kyle Stanley basher, and I was pulling for him win. It’s beyond ridiculous to think he intended to hit it there, though. Ben Crane probably should have won there on 18, after a nice 3 wood and a good approach almost pin high that came back off the front.
It’s pretty pathetic to resort to justifying a shot like that by saying “Oh, he was TRYING to hit the ball dead left there”.
I think the point here is that golf courses on The PGA tour should be set up so that the pros have to drive the ball as straight as an arrow or else they should be penalized accordingly. Being able to hit the ball 40 yards off line and then just pitch a short iron onto a green from light rough with a club that has box grooves to boot… waters the game down… trivializes it, and makes the game far less dramatic and interesting to watch.
i was not there for this much discussed kyle stanley tee shot, nor did i see it on the telly, but if i recall a few years back phil hit a drive on the 18th in the final round of the us open probably about the same amount offline and it cost him the tournament. in a twist of irony, if he and his caddie had the dialogue they had at pebble on sunday he’d probably would have won that open…maybe…who knows, i was pulling for monty that day.
i think phil and bones have a lot if not too much dialogue as well, but whatever works. it worked that day. i would be curious to know what club he
have pulled if he was tied or only had a one shot lead.
i do know this, i used to love watching the us open, especially in the 80’s. now i can’t tell the difference between that and the pga much less
countless other events.
i like homogenized milk but that’s about it…
heck, i liked watching faldo make 18 pars to win the open championship. that was cool.
funny story, i took my mom out to champions gc to watch the tour championship years ago and we’re walking along she points to a blonde (i was single) and says “oh look, she’s cute. why don’t you go talk to her and i’ll go get a couple of beers.” i said “mom, that’s mickleson’s wife…”
LOL I knew the Stanley tee shot would come up in this thread!
That was truly pathetic. How he played that hole encapsulates what the PGA Tour has become. And Faldo put the icing on the cake with his exact words being “that’s perfect there”.
Obviously can’t blame Kyle though and hats off to him for that amazing comeback after the heartbreak the previous week. His emotion in the interview with Kostis straight after the win was great to watch. He could barely talk and was crying. I love seeing it mean so much to the players.
It’s just so sad what the guys in charge are doing to the tour. I just don’t see how anyone can enjoy watching when it hardly matters where you put the ball off the tee. And try watching golf highlights! Just a bunch of guys sinking 20 footers viewed from the camera tower so you can’t even see the breaks on the greens.
That was my opinion that he missed it there on purpose, think I got it from the telecast at the time. I’ve not read any interviews from Stanley about it so I can’t say definitively he mean’t to hit it there and stand corrected if you were there and seen it was a pull. I still think it was the best miss on the hole for him, there seemed to be much more trouble on the right.
What I will say is that the level of aggression I am on the end of on this site just for posting my views is ungentlemanly and I do hope the aggressive posters on here are not like that in real life.
Posted on this but it evaporated into the net somewhere.
What I said earlier was that when I was watching I thought the commentator suggested he had missed it there on purpose. I have not read any interview from Stanley regarding that so if I am wrong I stand corrected.
The level of aggression I am on the receiving end of on this site just for posting my opinions is ungentlemanly in my opinion. I very much doubt that the agressive posters are like that in real life. Whilst many of you may not like or agree with my opinions, I do think the offensive position of some of the posts could be toned down somewhat. I do not like or agree with all of the posts made by other users, I like to think though that I stay within socially acceptable limits with my replies though.
Perhaps we could all agree to at least try to be civil when addressing each other’s views. I think the oft used internet term is “Play the comment, not the man”.
I’m only rude in kind. And trust me - I’ll do it better and make it sting harder.
Styles - your attitude at times, know-it-all persona, and constant attacks on members here with a broad brush are trying…at best. If I didn’t know better I would have assumed you to be a more disciplined troll. And, no…I’m not kidding. Lumping ABS’ers as acolytes of some anachronistic movement to turn back the clock on golf is crap. I’m tired of it and will call your b.s. when I see it.
I’m fine with opinions, however, when men (and women) come to this site with real experience from not only the material on ABS but real world experience (at the highest levels) when golf changed from persimmon to exotic metals, etc…I’m going to listen and learn. Instead of a respectful position and thoughtful questions…you throw thinly veiled barbs and jaundiced leading rhetoric that many times doesn’t even fit the discussion. Or if it fits, it’s plain disrespectful…poorly thought out sophistry. It reminds me of the garbage on other web sites that make their domains such a nasty place. When you act out - it feels like the arguments posed by those who hold The Golfing Machine in such sanctimonious regard. ABS folks do NOT act that way. Please stop insinuating that they do as it cheapens the value of your opinions.
Respectfully,
Captain Chaos (and I am not one to challenge with a poor attitude in person either…)
Another PGA event won with ugly 50/50 stats (FIR/GIR). The Northern Trust at Riviera was won by Bill Haas who for the four rounds put up mediocre 55.4% FIR and 50% GIR. He was first in putting though at 25.8 average putts per round.
Thought this was supposed to be the type of tournament venue (like the Canadian Open) that tested the wayward players, people like Tiger chose to skip because tough to play from off-fairway and only top ball-strikers come out on top…
If my 2yo son came to me tomorrow and said I want to be a pro golfer, I’d take away all his clubs but his putter and lob wedge. Then after a few years give him his driver. By time he is old enough these will be all that matters. Ball-strking prowess is going down (and has been). REALITY.
I’ve only been watching golf seriously in past two years. I didn’t see the greats of the 80’s and such, but was it common for them to constantly be missing greens with 9i/wedge shots from the fairway as I seem to see Rory and likes do? Or sail Par3 167y and blame or short into bunker? FOR tour PRO’s I think this is ridiculous, but then again game IS hard so maybe all top players did it in their time?
The rough at the Riviera looked nonexistent to me, so thats probably why Haas was able to get away with mediocre driving. I think it’s clear the ballstriking of todays tour pro is worse than the players of the past, and alot of that has to do with the course setups, and equipment. As far as missing greens with wedges and 9 irons from the fairway, that is not something that was seen very often with the great ballstrikers of the past, but i do recall Trevino in the playoff with Jack at Merion in the Us Open hitting a terrible short iron/wedge shot from the middle of the 1st fairway, and missed the green badly, and he is one of the most consistent ballstrikers ever, but it was a highly unusual occurance. Johnny Miller also was one of the best ballstrikers ever and he missed a green with a wedge from the middle of the fairway on 17 at Riviera down the stretch in 1982 due to poor distance control. But overall i would say the guys from the past were much better from tee to green, it wasnt to long ago that Senior player Tom Watson beat everyone except for one guy at a Major, and i think the speaks volumes.
I don’t have a problem seeing a pro past or present missing a green short. Anyone can catch one a bit heavy or thin. It’s the offline stuff that exposes the weakness of a golf swing. Missing a wedge 40 feet left of the pin is just unacceptable, yet alone missing by 40 yards left with a nine iron. The modern golf swings are simply not good in “direction control” department. Tiger has dominated by being a great putter and a great iron player along with his ability to make magic happen as true champions do. With a great short game, he had separated himself from the pack. But I don’t think Tiger would have dominated the game as he has in the last 15 years if he played in generations before. His main competition has come from a revolving cast of characters such as Phil, Duval, VJ, Els, … but he didn’t have to play against Nicklaus, Watson, Player, Palmer, Seve, Floyd, Norman, Crenshaw, or in the earlier era of Hogan, Nelson, Snead, Casper, Thomson etc. As much as the media wants Rory to be the next Tiger, that is not going to happen.
I don’t see a clear path to domination as there was before. In the past, a player could gain a huge advantage being a great ball striker. But even if a player came out and split every fairway at 320, it’s just not the advantage it once was because the players now can recover from 40 yards offline much easier than the could have in the past. Most wins now seem to be guys clocking 26 putts a round. Can a player average 24 putts a round? I think that is a stretch. Everyone is just bunched in there now.
Interesting to see what happens when one of the few excellent ball strikers actually putts like most of the other guys… (Sergio). I know his putter has really held him back from the success it seems he should have.
Regardless of how corrupt the modern gear is to a course like Riviera, it still played much more difficult than the typical boring PGA Tour layout.
I have no doubt that the best gear was made in the 50’s and 60’s not only in the design of the heads but the physics of mass and firmer more reliable thicker walled golf shafts. I say this in reference to accurate precision ball striking. Even the old golf balls created better players because they could spin them and that gave better feedback to the evolution of a more sophisticated golf swing.
There is a reason we are not seeing the quality of precision ball striking that was once blessed upon the game.
It’s troubling for me to see this. Not sure how you can hit a 9 iron 30 to 40 yards left of the target. Not even on a bad week, yet alone being in contention on Sunday. And he did the same thing again with a wedge a few holes later. I see this kind of stuff all the time on tour.
Anyone can catch one heavy or thin, come up short … but to get that OTT with a 9 iron?
This is just not the era of the great ballstrikers.
