Coriolis effect

:laughing:

I don’t feel it in time measures. I sense the tempo and timing as developing acceleration.

Backmove…1/4 notes
Transition…1/8 notes
Firing…1/16 notes
Post Impact…1/32 notes

:laughing:

I really like the connection between PV5 and 5/4 time…hadn’t thought about it that way…will now! :sunglasses:

I have been reading greens lately while standing behind the ball and briefly shifting weight from one foot to the other a few cycles and allowing that to move my head from side to side slightly. Somehow watching the alternating perspective of the overall view from the ball to the hole lends another dimension to the feel for break and speed. This sounds similar to RR’s baseball flight parabola detection. Even if I am kidding myself and it’s just a placebo effect, I don’t care. It seems to help. I haven’t used it on the course yet, but I like it on the practice green. It doesn’t have to be a big production, it’s actually fairly subtle and brief.

Same kind of deal Teebox when looking a putt lines. Example: uphill right to left…the amount of potential curve can be seen better standing midway from ball to hole looking at the line from the left of it instead of directly behind it. Of course, that’s all good in theory, and from a visual perspective is quite accurate given the pace of roll…but I will still miss more than make- which always amazed me because at one time I considered playing professional billiards.

Too bad one can’t putt using a pool cue… :slight_smile:

Bom, your post is thought provoking. For the moment, I’d like to focus on only two points you addressed at the risk of missing other points you make.

Bom said: “I don’t think the eyes are actively involved with coordinating the club to the ball, and I mean that in a specific, to the exact spot sort of way. I think they are involved for sure in our general awareness and understanding of where the ball is where we are in relation to it. So as a result, I think we have some leeway in terms of some motion. I’m sure some people are more skilled or capable in terms of that spacial type awareness, so that’s got to help.”

I can’t prove it but I think you are right. But I suspect that for some of us at least, turning our head during the downswing might generate enough divergent visual input to sabotage our coordination by swamping bandwidth and processing capacity in whatever systems manage our coordination. This is speculative and just ignorant on my part but that’s how I think about it until I learn better.

Bom asked “How would you see quality of vision playing a part in this? How would that alter the Coriolis Effect or impact it?”

Here’s a long guess.
Perhaps the person whose swing is badly affected when the head turns during the downswing leading to disorientation, the Coriolis effect on perception, might be better off learning some way to tune out or tone down visual input. A seemingly absurd example might be wearing a blindfold, but perhaps it is not crazy as a training tactic in some cases. A less drastic example could be letting the vision “glaze over” during the down swing. There may be evidence that a temporary “blindness” may occur naturally for many golfers as in the case of Ben Hogan who said something to the effect he did not see anything approaching and through impact, at best it was all a blur. Perhaps for these golfers, this is “nature’s way” help to minimize disorientation, the Coriolis effect on perception.

Being aware of the ball and actually looking at it are two different things. It’s a lot like daydreaming- our eyes might be technically looking an object in our field of view, but our thoughts are elsewhere. I get asked that all the time…“what part of the ball are you looking at?”. I always say "I’m not, I’m aware that’s it’s there but I could give a hoot really…it could be a wad of paper for all I’m concerned because it will not change how I choose to spend my moment in time with motion.

It’s the mind’s eye, along with intentions- which actually may be close to the same thing, which is a cornerstone IMO.

I think Bruce Litzke has a good, but difficult and complex, example of this. There is no doubt his gaze is directed at the ball…but his thoughts are busy capturing an out-of-body visualization. He actually “sees” an image of himself standing in a caddy view relationship to the real him at address. The “image Litzke” then sees what he wants the “real Litzke” to execute…then he- the real person- goes ahead and executes what he saw from the eyes of the “image Litzke”. Real difficult to capture this in words as I just woke up and not enough coffee yet! But that’s the main theme.

There’s some video footage somewhere of Litzke talking about this. Over the edge stuff for sure…but get’s to the heart of things.

About blindfolding…one of the main reasons a blind person can have success hitting a golfball is that they have no anticipation of impact. :slight_smile:

This might be a good time for our resident snooker/pool players to chime in

I am along with RR…I don’t ever really focus on the ball because I know it’s there and thru repetition my mind’s eye knows where it is…
I am wondering what the good snooker/pool players do/did?..were they ball focused?..were they cue tip focused?..were the cue focused?..were they pocket focused?..were they next shot position focused?

It may be a good comparison to what our brain/eyes/minds eye can take on and replicate all during the course of a shot-- golf in our case but also useful info from other sports

Here is a couple of tennis pics below from the world’s best of the past 10 years- Roger Federer and Serena Williams
tennisball.JPG

Well, first of all one’s best shot may not be the easiest…and there is a shifting of vision/intention. Will get back later…have to go shovel some snow so Mall Rat can go out and spend some more of our money :unamused: …she’s giving me “that look” like get your ass off that computer and clear the driveway. She wins this one :laughing:

OK…snow gone thanks to Craftsman Power.

Focus is never on tip of cue during execution…chalk that puppy and forget about it. Focus initially is on a specific spot on cue ball where you want the tip to meet which would be the tippping of english, when required. All good players are always working Mr. Whitey…just like golf. Those who control Mr. Whitey the best take the cash…just like golf. Making the shot is a given…it’s what you do with the Mr. Whitey that is the line of demarcation.

Once you know where the tip force will be applied, the focus shifts to the object ball, rail, or space, during the stroke. The focus is not on the pocket…the pocket just happens to get in the way…much like a golf hole gets in the way of a well struck putt with proper speed.

Lots of opposite things happening on that slate…ball hugging a left rail will hold the rail with R tipping…

Just missed the chance to play Minnesota Fats in a game long ago…that man was real good…he was the Lee Trevino of ivory. :slight_smile:

This and Bom’s comments on the previous page jive with what Bobby Jones said in his book, published in the 1960’s. He said he lived a “short iron’s” distance from East Lake golf course, and when he was in high school, on nights when the moon was out, would go with a buddy or two and putt on the practice green. They came to the conclusion that their results( made putts) were better by moonlight, especially in the 8-10 foot range. Jones main point was regarding the inablity to see specific green blemishes in low light, such as worm casts…he thought not being able to see these was good. But you wonder if the overall decreased acuity, including ball vision, had a beneficial effect.

I tried to find examples on YouTube of music played 5/4 but don’t know what I am doing. :blush:
Suggestions are welcome.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkhX5W7JoWI[/youtube]

Jump time at 5/4

Looks a lot like Lag’s logo don’t you think. :ugeek: :laughing:

I believe the respected putter Loren Roberts said something to the effect that he doesn’t begin his putting stroke until his eyes begin to glaze over. I guess he’s learned to invite it; he doesn’t waste time over the ball imho.

It’s often said that after we learn fundamentals about a sport and the closer we get to trusting our intuition or instinct, the better we can perform on average. As we learn to trust ourselves we usually release ourselves from being ball bound. For some it is a monster chicken or egg dilemma and others just do it. As a hacker I believe one of the major obstacles to higher performance is not recognizing the depth of self doubt and not finding ways to gain trust in the potential of our intuition and instinct. Ultimately, only the golfer can actually cross the internal divide between doubt and trust no matter what input is received from teachers. And the effort often must be repeated after things have gone badly again. Practicing in diminishing light or darkness, or with eyes closed leaves no other good choice than to let go and discover we can trust ourselves to a much greater degree than we may have believed. Having tools we can use without relying on a teacher, tools like putting or chipping in the dark or with the eyes closed or diverted, has helped me in this way imho.

Too bad ah cain’t dance, Ma. :blush:

But cool selection, Maestro Rat. :smiley:

Maestro…not quite! Actually should have thought more about that song…which I did later today. 7/4 will do.

The point is the stepping ahead feel from common time is what Lag was getting to with 5/4…you have one more bite at the apple. Or looking at it another way. If you were breaking 4 layers of bricks with your hand and after the 4th brick you thought you were through…still have one more brick to break. Or better yet…ever sit on a toilet in which you were prepared to find the seat height where it normally is…only to feel the sudden jumping ahead ( falling down ) feeling as you fall a little further…same thing.

Funny, when Lag first mentioned 5/4 that was the first song to pop into my head quickly…should have thought a little more on that one.

Keep on dancin teebox :slight_smile:

Being musically challenged( as far as playing it) , I need someone to elaborate a little on this timing stuff please. ( and on a very elemenary level). I can’t play the piano…but like most, I can tell if you miss a note.

I have heard it said that Nicklaus, as well as other greats, used “2/1” timing…or maybe"2-1" timing. I figured that meant it took him 2 beats on the takeaway, and 1 on the forward swing.

Is this correct? Is that what he used? And how do the other options figure in…5/4, 7/4 ? Does this mean 5 beats on the takeaway and 4 on the forwad swing?

Ok Teebox…put on your dancin’ shoes…here’s a 5/4…feels the five beats.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eoy91sYdQPE[/youtube]

Eagle: Think of it this way instead of that 2:1 stuff.

If you live to be 100 years old, you can divide you life into four quarters of 25 years each. A lot of people think that motion is finished after impact. So, in this example…from takeaway to the top would be 1 quarter (25 years) and from the top to the ball (another 25 years) would be the 2nd quarter. What about the other the other two quarters after impact…what do you do with them

This is basically the structure for 4/4, or common time. I’ll get into the 5/4 stuff later…got to take the grandson to swimming practice. :slight_smile:

Eagle: back to the aging process…if we divide a hitting motion into 4 quarters ( 4/4 time )we might have:

To the top…1 quarter
Transition…1 quarter
Firing…1 quarter
Post Impact…1 quarter

Total…4 quarters ( 4/4 time )

Each quarter is a unit of time on its own, but together they form a measure of time to get something done…so you have to do all four quarters if we accept the premise that post-impact is important…which it is. TGM dumpers only really use the first 2 quarters ( 50 years ) and leave the other 50 years on the table, so to speak.

If we accept the premise of the P4 position being the last of the quarters ( the fourth quarter )- then this is where 5/4 shows its face. Don’t stop at P4. From P4 to PV5 is when 5/4 works hard continuing to accelerate the club…dare I say the 5th accumulator :laughing:

5/4 time. 1. Dave Brubeck’s “Take Five”. 2. Mission Impossible theme. 3. “Living in the past”, Jethro Tull. 4. Classical music by Gulstav Holst, “Mars”.

In my opinion swingers use the 6/8 time signature. Waltz’s and Marches.

Thanks guys…Ithink I’m starting to get it. Someone has likened the beat/rhythm of the swing with glue. We can’t see it on still photos, and it’s easy to get hung up on positions and forget the flow/ the beat/ the music which ties it all together, and in fact, may cover up or compensate for errors in position.

I think the “2/1” timing reference to Nicklaus must have meant 2 beats to the top and transition, then 1 beat back to the ball…which ignores the all important post impact stuff.