I’ve got the Apex 4’s in the irons now and Wilson light crap in the wedge and an S300 bore through in the driver and Dynamic S probably parallel tips in the fairway woods.
Now questions come up. I can’t find anywhere what the raw weight is of the Apex 4 is, all I know is that it is classified as lightweight steel but at least I know they are all .355 taper so I won’t have to rebore anything. The X200 is 126g so I need the differencial to figure how much length I will need to add to get the same swingweight or maybe a point heavier (and then flatten them again). Does anyone know the raw weight of the old Hogan Shafts or where to find them?
Next the woods. I forget what the frequency differences are between an X200 parallel and an X200 taper. It has to be different because of the thickness differences in the tips, right? And if the Driver is a bore through but the Fairways aren’t I’m gonna need to start with a little softer raw shaft for the Driver OR tip the Fairways (which is really frigging scary with an X2 because I’m not Superman) to get them to play the same? I know the only diference between the numbers on DGs are the weights so an X1 is the same frequency as an X5 but they play like totally different animals.
I’m afraid to ask almost anyone these questions because nobody gets it any more or ever did. I want to match everything up so they all play the right weight and flex and are heavy enough and I also remember that the lengths and thicknesses of the hosels in the wedges make a difference too. I want to get this right the first time around a best as I can and I need some help. The more I think about it the more I think I want to stiffen everything up sooner and ‘grow into it’ rather than leave them weak and more playable.
Also is there any real difference between the regular DGs and the Tour Issues besides the 0.5g tolerance and the marked spine? They’re so much more expensive and I’ve never hit one to see if there is anything noticable anywhere.
I don’t know the answer but along the same lines do you have any thoughts on the difficulties or remedies to putting stiffer shafts into factory installed regular flex heads? I keep coming across so many cool sets that have reg shafts but keep passing on them…
Same thing as going from an S to an X, more flexible lighter shafts lower the swingweights when replaced by a stiffer heavier shaft. You have to lengthen it out to get the SW back and then change the lie angle. Then with the longer shaft you have to possibly strengthen the loft to keep it from balloning. It’s hard to dial in. At least in my case I’m going from a tip flexible shaft to a tip stiff shaft so the ball flight will lower signif. even after I lengthen it.
My club guy picked up a few full iron sets of the Apex 4 shafts when TT recently decided to closeout all their inventory. I’m sure I can get the measured weights of each if you don’t have any other way to get there. Let me know.
That’s another reason all the lofts are so strong nowadays, most all the shafts are so weak in the tips it launches the short irons way too high and all over the place. You have to get them strong lofted to take some of the air out from underneath them or they never come down.
Hey Rob, that would be a huge help, like half the battle. Post it when you get them or send me a PM and thanks in advance. Sincerest apologies for missing you over at National, just had everything going on at the same time. I got the first round when we do have a chance to meet up.
One of the things to keep in mind regarding shafts is to understand the type of golf swing you have.
If you are driving the club through actively with the hands “hitting” and holding shaft flex into impact, then shaft flex frequencies have much less effect upon your outcome.
However, if you are swinging, bringing dead hands into impact, then you are essentially timing the radial straightening of the shaft right into your lowpoint. So in this case… if you are using this kind of of golf swing, then shaft flex is very critical to your outcome.
People argue to no end about the effect of shaft flex, and head weights, and swing weights…
I like to drive it through actively, so I want as much head weight as I can handle, and I also like my shafts to be heavy also because if I am holding shaft flex, then the weight of the shaft is contributing to the force of the hit also.
With a swinger, this is not the case… you could have the clubhead on a string essentially.
If you are playing the game… you just need to understand and feel what you do… but if you are teaching golf, I think you really need to understand these differences.
The shafts in older sets are another reason I was always skeptical about buying sets from like the 50s or 60s when I don’t have experience with like the ProPels that are in a lot of the old Macs or the Glass (fiberglass) shafts in some of the old Golfcrafts. The heads were ground and balanced to work with whatever the original shaft was and it may be totally different and incompatible with modern steel like DGs. If you know for sure that the orig was like a Dynamic or an Apex that’s cool, they have been good stuff forever but there were exotics and cheapies since forever that may have had weird weights and torques and kickpoints that required totally different head balance and COG in forgings that you can’t see. Guys that hand made heads like Don White made the heads different for weak light R shafts and high handicappers than the stiff heavy shafts that good players hit even if they look the same. At least I can’t tell the differences in the heads and the weighting when it’s that subtle on Ebay listings or even by my eye when I have it in my hands. You have to hit it to tell and it’s a shame to buy beautiful clubs that just don’t work with stiff good shafts.
I get that Lag, but when you just tip the snot out of X100s they get too light for the effective flex, that’s why they have the numbers in the first place. I’m surprised that you use the lightest possible X flex DG all over the lot. The reason they have different weights in the first place is so that a hard hitter has more weight and control with the hard hit. Those X1s are the same weight as an R flex and your high swingweight really isn’t high enough. If you had a stock X3 instead of a tipped X1 in that Hogan Driver with the lead weights it might be in the high C’s rather than D7. I’m trying to get heavy enough and X1s don’t get there.
Ya B, it is that complicated unfortunately because as the head weight increases so does the shaft flex. Everything has to be balanced and work together. Too much added weight to the head of an X turns it into an R or worse.
So it is weight but it’s also the distribution of the weight? I’m confused as to how they would compensate for flex change in designated flexed shafts at the beginning if it’s essentially a weight issue regardless… does that make sense?
sure it’s an art to building heads when you do it by hand, like katanas. They’d make a whole series of R’s and then a series of S’s and a few X’s, then something totally different for the Tour Players
It’s like the bottom or toe weighting in the new junk. They made the old blade heads lighter and thicker in the sole and toe for high handicappers who hit it low and sliced it and matched it with light flexible shafts. It’s hard to see by the eye but it’s there.
Plus when you’re trying to create and keep the load in the shaft the added weight in the head makes the shaft bend more than it should thus turning an X into an R in application.
I understand the effect of headweight on shaft flex but I still don’t get why the distribution of it would effect the flex. Other than the performance of the head in terms of flight as a result of the weight distribution, I can’t see how the total head weight regardless of it’s placement would be any different in terms of it’s effect on the flexing of the shaft… any thoughts on that?
That affects the head-ball interaction and determines ball flight the same way the new bottom and toe weighted Ti Drivers do now. More bottom weight gets the ball higher and toe weight makes it close and hook the ball. That doesn’t affect the shaft flex (more toe weight does torque the shaft more) but it totally changes the flight.
