PAr 4, 457 yards. How about a freakin HYBRID iron off the tee and then an 8i iosteomyelitis the first cut of “rough”!
Then a different hole a dogleg right Par 4 where 2 players decide to aim for the green OVER the public area/driving range. One drops it onto fairway about 50 y from hole, the other half shanks it and it bounces around public area into a crevice between two garbage cans! He gets to mark his ball, move the cans and have a 30 y chip onto green from an area never even considered a ball to being played from when course was designed…
Ontop of which they were having a fun ol time with the location of the ball. Laughing it up. All the current young crops watching current PGA on tv sees this and goes out working on max distance as those guys are so cool. One of them just bought an old dukes of hazard “general lee” car at auction and drove it to event.
Forget who was leading the vent because they hardly show them or give as much airtime.
Power to them. Young, on PGA tour, long as shit and can shoot under par pretty much anywhere. Ahh the life…
Not sure if any one saw the free drop given to Phil Mickelson today? Hits it way right, the ball ended up UNDER the fence that defines OOB, the ball was still inbounds but under the fence up against a post, totally unplayable. He then claimed the ball was in an animal scratching with which the Rules official agreed and was given free relief away from the fence! I thought it was borderline cheating and coming from a tour veteran, absolute disgrace
The worse it gets, the more likely change will come… but it won’t come from the USGA or PGA Tour. I really believe they are leaving the door open for a new organization that supports the traditional values of the game. Simplicity, and restrictions that bring back the game’s best courses for proper competition. It’s important that new golfers understand these relationships between architecture and equipment.
A friend of mine went to one of those mega stores to try out new equipment i wont mention the manufacturers name but he used ther 6 iron and hit it 220 yes 220 yds this buddy of mine is a 15 hdcp at best. This is there latest greatest equipment of 2012. I have to rip my aussie 1986 3 iron to get that number.I told him dont do it but he didnt listen $1000 later he bought the irons. A sad case!!!
I woke up to this this morning. Power to the People, Right On! If Flavor Flav shows up on my first tee with that clock, I’m out. Then again, maybe this is the bifurcation we need. Notice the swing crack equipment makers are already embedded in this movement. Load up on the Rockstar energy drinks, and latest fashions. I can just see this happening somewhere in the future…‘Live from the red carpet here at Augusta…’ All of this somehow reminds me of bowling alleys that set up the bumpers so the kids can come in and have a good time.
I remember when Ian Woosnam won the Masters. On 18 he hit it 300+ over the fairway bunker to a place no one expected then made par for the win. Disgraceful! Oh wait, he was using a persimmon so I guess that makes it ok.
Of course it’s ok, because he did it with skill, and world class technique… not a club and a ball that would soon allow most all the pros to do that within a decade. Exactly what the USGA warned about, then failed to enforce… to the demise of the game.
So what is 18 at Augusta now? It’s a boring straight shot to the center from a contrived lengthened tee box… not requiring the player to work the ball anymore as the hole was intended … just the right amount (left to right) to position the ball correctly. If Woosnam or Norman can fly the bunker with a persimmon… great. Not many could do that… and not many had golf swings like those two.
It was a risky shot also because they were playing the high spinning balata, and if Woosnam would have missed it… going at it that hard, that ball could have gone anywhere. The balatas would keep curving into oblivion if you missed them. The new balls can be curved on the ride up to the apex but they loose spin in the air coming off the drivers and fall more or less straight down from their apex. That’s why you don’t see guys two fairways over anymore like in the past. It was a lot more risky to get after one because the consequences of a miss could be horrific.
Is it time for me to post a classic Masters rerun to remind everyone what the course used to be? I think so. Coming to a thread soon.
Rory’s meltdown, multiple potential winners on back nine but all beaten by charl finishing with 4 birds for the “W”, something never done previously in the history of the event.
And guys hitting short irons into par 5’s that used to be very risky 2 shot holes or layup holes… Doesn’t exactly fit the description of “a classic Masters rerun to remind everyone what the course used to be”, does it?
Sure, it was dramatic and an exciting finish because there were so many guys that factored into it, but the course isn’t comparable to what it was when guys were hitting persimmons with spinny balls. I don’t see how anyone can get around that fact. You can choose to ignore it though, and tell yourself “these guys are good” because they hit driver-9 iron into par 5’s down the stretch.
Anyone watch the WM Phoenix Open? I saw most of the Levin and Stanley drama on the back nine unfold in person. Stanley played really well up to 17, but his tee shots on 17 and 18 were both REALLY offline. I was right behind the tee box on both of them. 17 was a lucky break that he had a shot from the desert after he really pushed a 3 wood that could have easily cost him the tournament. Then he gets up on 18, decides to hit driver down the left, and pulls it way left of the trouble. On anywhere but a stadium course, that would have been OB or in the trees and lost. Instead, he misses 60 yards left of his target and lands in trampled down rough with a good lie and good angle and almost makes birdie.
I’m not trying to diminish his win, and I think it says a lot about him that he was able to bounce back after last week and shoot a bogey-free 6 under yesterday to make up an 8 shot deficit. I am happy for him and it makes a great story line. At the same time, the way he played on those last two holes should have cost him at the very least a stroke a hole, and at a lot of courses he’d have finished double-double. I don’t even think it’s his fault, because the Tour sets up events so that precision driving isn’t all that relevant. I also watched Greg Chalmers hit a really thin 3 wood that was almost wet on 18. An embarrassingly bad miss for someone on the last hole playing in the 3rd to last group. Clearly ballstriking just really doesn’t matter any more.
As much as Bubba gets chastised on here, he struck the ball really well from what I saw and worked the ball both ways. Had he putted well down the stretch, he would have factored into the end too.
I don’t understand why people rip on Bubba’s ball striking. I get that most people on here want to see more precision off the tee. I do as well. However, that’s not the game that is going to make these guys money. That is the idea after all. These courses are designed to hit it a mile and go find it and that’s what he’s doing.
That being said, the dude seems to hit a LOT of solid iron shots. And he seems to be the only guy who really puts an emphasis on working “shots” into hole locations.
I guess I really don’t understand why the players end up getting bashed on this site. I don’t like the way the game has evolved any more than ya’ll do. However, it is what it is. Rip the tour officials and the USGA all you want. If you put different equipment in their hands and had them play tight, old school courses, their games would evolve and for the most part the guys who are the best would still be the best. I don’t think that goes for all those guys but as a general rule I really believe that. Of course, that would bring the old school player back into contention as well.
A few decades ago, I watched Nicklaus and Norman play a practice round at Augusta…can’t remember exactly what year, but Norman was near the top or on the rise. He must have been picking Nicklaus’ brain on course strategy. Of course I couldn’t hear what they were saying, but can still remember seeing Nicklaus shake his head in disapproval as they looked over the bunker at 18, with Norman gesturing at the "safe"expanse beyond the bunker, awaiting those who could carry it off the tee. Apparently no one had played it that way before…not Palmer, Nicklaus, Player, Weiskopf, or Miller…and they weren’t short-knockers. So this was outside the box. To do it with wood and balata… IS a testament to how good Norman and Woosnam were with the driver.
A couple of decades ago, or more, I watched Nicklaus and Norman play a practice round at Augusta…can’t remember exactly what year, but Norman was near the top or on the rise. He must have been picking Nicklaus’ brain on course strategy. Of course I couldn’t hear what they were saying, but can still remember seeing Nicklaus shake his head in disapproval as they looked over the bunker at 18, with Norman gesturing at the "safe"expanse beyond the bunker, awaiting those who could carry it off the tee. Apparently no one had played it that way before…not Palmer, Nicklaus, Player, Weiskopf, or Miller…and they weren’t short-knockers. So this was outside the box. To do it with wood and balata… IS a testament to how good Norman and Woosnam were with the driver.
I can agree with this. Well said. What do Pimps usually say? “Hate the game, not the Playa” . Think that applies to todays PGA well.
Yes, best players have just evolved to what is needed to win on tour. In any tough cut-throat competition with only a small pool out of millions that make it, it is only natural to do what others are doing around you to also win. Sort of keep up or get left behind. The PGA is advancing to distance sells AND with longer courses also what players are focusing on in order to keep these long courses easier for them. Driver-8i on Par5’s, if you can using equipment well within rules, who WOULDN’T? MUCH easier than Driver-4i.
Flat/Heavy that is a big part of ABS really is obsolete on current tour. No one works on it because you’d be left behind. The courses would that much tougher. No awards given for being true to the classic game.
I added a couple strips of lead tape to my irons to play with and it did help with tempo, feel of head and probably a better shallow path (didn’t have video). But in all honesty I lost about 10-30y (throughout the set) compared to without the tape. The better accuracy probably just comes from slower swing speed. Nothing really pioneering about that, just basic physics. But is it worth being 1-2 clubs shorter? Tell that to a PGA pro. “I want you to go heavy like the greats of past did. You will be slightly more accurate. Ohh, but where you used to hit 7i you will need 6”.
I disagree that flat/heavy/stiff is obsolete in any way. I have my irons (Mizuno MP68’s) set up at D5 with X200’s, and don’t have any problem carrying my 7 iron 165-170. I know for a fact (I caddied in his group in the WM Pro Am this week) I am at least as long as Mark Wilson with my irons, and probably driver too, even though my driver is at least 20 grams heavier. I’m not some big strong guy either at 5’11" and about 148 lbs. I just don’t get how anyone could lose 30 yards with a little lead tape on their irons. I’m not doubting that you did, but I think there’s got to be something else going on. I also have no trouble believing John (lag) when he says he can hit a “frying pan” well over 300 yards no problem. The ABS move itself and the flat entry with the violent post-impact intentions can be a huge power move.
I do definitely agree that it isn’t the players’ faults. The courses set up for that way of playing, and the equipment forces them into their upright arm throw/pivot stall moves. I don’t think that means that the ABS way is obsolete, though. I think it is a superior way to play, and even today would absolutely be rewarded on Tour.
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The only reason why modern gear may go a tad farther than the classic gear is due to the loft. Classic irons had more loft than todays irons. Other than that, the key thing for distance in the flat heavy gear is retaining shaft flex all the way thru post impact into P5. If you lose that flex, you are now relying on speed only with dead hands. Thats my opinion anyways.
I currently got a good a steal on MP 68’s and will alter them to abs specs. I am currently not efficient enough to play with the Classic’s on the course yet after trying for 4-5 months. After a while, it becomes tiresome, especially losing to your friends, you know you can beat! This will soon change hopefully!
I do practice with my ABS gear only. I can stripe those on the range all day, but havent got enough confidence yet on the course with them apparently. So until then i will game the 68’s and eventually switch over.
I cannot tell you how EASY it is to hit the MP 68’s after training and gaming with the ABS Classics gear for 4-5 months.
Its like going from Blades to Huge cavity backs its so stupid ridiculous. This tells me right here how forgiving even current day Blades are.
My main goal is to eventually play my ABS classics permanently on the course.
Until then! Hold that shaft flex! It is the Holy grail of our swing!
I take it back actually. I attribute it to my poor aging memory from trying it a year ago (when my swing was also worse). Out of curiosity I went to night driving range after posting that, lead tape in hand. My current irons SW at D4-5 (already heavy?). I loaded up two good size strips on a few irons and started comparing. Distance was same through the clubs with added lead. So I was wrong.
BUT… I felt I was working harder. felt a little more taxing going through a large bucket of balls. As matter of fact I was there last week doing same amount with same irons without the lead tape and didn’t feel like I worked out afterwards. I know I only added 4-5g , but as I sit here typing this I can definitely feel my lower back sore and in my forearms/wrist.
Years ago, when i was teaching this great game ( teaching very poorly i might add) i had that ONE student. You know the one, the one where it was all too tough. I use to cringed when he rang and booked a lesson. One day i added 2 layers of lead tape to his 7 iron. He went and shot his worst ever score. He blamed the lead tape, lol. It was only on his 7 iron, and he admitted he didnt hit a 7 iron that day on the course. But it “ruined” his rythm. He was a 27 handicaper, Budman was NOT his nickname thou.
I agree with Chamblee who I am sure has lurked on this forum.
There needs to be two tours.
One for the modern bomb and gouge game… and another tour for those interested in proper golf as it was intended.
pick your poison.
But I would like to see more modern tour pros take the Snedeker challenge and have a go. I don’t think Brandt would be the only one shooting 80. While any of these guys would improve with some work playing the classic stuff… I doubt they would be striking the ball like Knudson anytime soon.
The modern gear… long putters and such… are crutches even for the PGA Tour pros.
The way the tour is set up now… it really doesn’t allow the great players to shine whomever they are. It’s too homogenized now.
If you look at Grand Prix auto racing… you could take a guy like Jackie Stewart or more recently Michael Schumacher, who has won 7 world titles… but you don’t see either of their names on the Indy 500 Trophy. Great drivers but the higher speed less technical track just may not be their thing where they can really shine…
Similar sports but different.
But my point is that BOTH versions of the sport and of course many other STILL exist.
I am not happy that the current version of golf has simply pushed aside the previous version with no alternative on the pro level. I will always support any efforts to re establish a proper game of golf, and am not likely to shut up or relax into any kind of contentment about the modern abomination.
Discontentment is usually why changes happen. It’s not just me or just this site where people feel this this way.
Doesn’t exactly fit the description of “a classic Masters rerun to remind everyone what the course used to be”, does it?
